Comments on: UMC - Part 6

By: John Scott

John Scott — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:29:18 +0000

Thanks Craig! As a church planter and United Methodist I believe you are right on the money in each of your observations. Many of our successful plants are not including the title “United Methodist” in the name…almost shamefully deceptive. We claim a great understanding of, and place great importance on vision, purpose, and yes, unity, while diminishing the fact that denominationally we have none of the above and claim that we do. It’s the ole ‘head-in-the-sand” thing on a grand, spiritual scale. There was once a wise young leader of God’s people who put it very suscinctly; without vision, the people will perish. My.greatest concern is such wise observations will fall upon deaf ears and we will continue to invite people to be part of a body that is confused about the role of scripture, a commitment to discipleship, and an urgency to share the Gospel. I love this church and pray for a global awakening within the UMC.

By: C. Binnie

C. Binnie — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:50:22 +0000

As a liberal UM pastor, I, too, strive to “boldly preach the life-changing Word of God and the new birth in Christ.” I, too, believe that “[w]ithout the powerful proclamation of the [g]ospel,” hope of survival is futile. And I believe wholeheartedly in being evangelical (by that, I mean sharing the gospel with all people). But I don’t appreciate the implication that being liberal means you don’t do, believe, or practice any of the aforementioned things. When we talk of division and differences of opinion, we need to proceed with caution and respect. Gross generalizations aren’t helpful. Honest dialogue is.

By: Sherry

Sherry — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:35:10 +0000

My husband and I have decided to do just what Elizabeth referred to. We consider that we are right in the middle of the mission field in our very liberal UMC (which I’ve been part of all my life). We have a Bible study group in our home every week where we have, in the past 4 years, studied John, Matthew, Acts, and, this year Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians and the impact God’s word has on our lives. We send much more of our money to a couple in Central Asia with Campus Crusade for Christ than we do to our church because we approve of how it’s being used there. We were frustrated for so long to be in the midst of such blatant unbelief, but my husband says we should stay and “be missionaries” instead of just leaving (and abandoning the believers) in the church where we are. Any opinions on whether this is the right approach? I wrote in more detail a few months ago above on this site.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Tue, 09 Nov 2010 00:35:40 +0000

We are wondering if anyone can give us some skills how to stay in the UMC and survive…
We have a big mission field in the UMC…just being there to share the true gospel…
Fight the good fight!

By: meade

meade — Tue, 14 Sep 2010 03:00:28 +0000

It is reprehensible how the UMC treats Israel. Divestment, flotilla, etc. After 4 generations of UMC my family has left. This was the final straw after a litany of “UM Action.” My dist. superintendent, Bishop and of course the gbcs are too much for me to persuade. They are against me and call me a racist (because I am for “legal” immigration) in the book of resolutions. Too much. I am moving on to a conservative church that embraces Israel and encourages voluntary good works-not communism.

By: eufems

eufems — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:17:13 +0000

I say amen to Mr Groeschel’s suggestions, especially this one. The rift of allowing gays to be ordained seems to be more emphasized than telling God’s Word. Or believing it in the first place. It seems people are forgetting Matthew 28:19 and John 13:34.

What the UMC leadership (especially in America) should do is to consider these six simple suggestions, admit there’s a problem, hear all people’s suggestions, and settle the homosexuality dispute as well as others once and for all.

If I were the one to decide, I’d allow homosexuals to join the congregation in worship services, but make it a burden to convince them that God made man and woman.

Mabuhay po kayo!

[I'm from the UMC in the Philippines anyway :)) ]

By: Craig Groeschel

Craig Groeschel — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 19:10:51 +0000

Bill, I’m familiar with your work and grateful for your influence. Blessings to your family and ministry!

By: Bill Easum

Bill Easum — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:32:31 +0000

Greg, I read your thoughts with great interest. I have remained a UMC for a variety of reasons, the key one being, they let me start a church and left me there for 24 years. I agree with the spirit of everyone of your thoughts.
It’s the UMCs loss that you are no longer one of us. YOu sould a lot more Methodist than many of my own tribe sound these days.
Bill

By: Amy

Amy — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 19:13:04 +0000

I’ve agreed with everything you’ve said. I think to add on to this post, those churches that are evangelical cannot shy away from their UMC ties because they are afraid of the stigma that will be put on them; rather, they need to concentrate on teaching what makes them UMC (prevenient grace, for one). I have heard so many evangelical preachers say “if you think we’re Methodist, we’re not like those others” instead of saying “if you think we’re Methodist, know that we’re going back to the Wesley roots and are doing away with what other churches have turned the UMC into.”

On the other hand, evangelical has gotten a bad rap as well. Being evangelical means loving the Bible to pieces and believing it’s divine leadings and teachings. That doesn’t mean fundamentalist. That doesn’t mean televangelist. That means evangelical. Very different things.

By: Hank

Hank — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:26:56 +0000

Dear UMC,

Simply put, we need pastors who believe:

#1 That we need to be more concerned about preaching. “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God” Acts 6:2

#2 That judgment is real for you too: “if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.” Mark 9:4

I heard a pastor say to a massive gathering of other pastors “Some of you aren’t the prophets you are called to be… you’re prostitutes! You’ve given in and now you work and offer your services to a congregation who pays you to make them feel good.”

#3 We’re not called to make people “feel good” we’re called to be communicators of the Word and to use it for “teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that all God’s people may be thoroughly equipped for EVERY good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Sometimes showing someone love doesn’t make them feel good. If you don’t understand that, you don’t need to be a lead pastor.
—

I’m tired of fooling around with bureaucratic policies and rhetoric. I’m tired of pastors preaching half-Ah…(you know what I mean?). I’m so tired of sermons that come from text books, emailed forwards, or are straight plagiarized from the pastor down the street. I’m tired of messages that aren’t covered in prayer, fasting, intentional study, sleepless nights, and convictions from the Holy Spirit. I’m tired of seminaries pumping out people dedicated to an institution instead of dedicated to daily seeking life changing inspiration, preaching it, and acting it out daily. I’m tired of pastors that are so caught up in the institution, theological discussions, and a book of resolutions (that is near worthless) that they have no idea what a podcast is, how Lady Gaga is influencing our culture, and turn pulpits (or sermons if you don’t use a pulpit) into political springboards.

UGHH!!! Dear UMC, I’m frustrated with you. I love you, but you are driving me crazy!!

If the UMC doesn’t get it together Hell will be crowded with people that are listed on UM membership roles. Pastors, stop turning the pages in your Book of Discipline when you have a problem, stop referring to the Book of Resolutions to find out what you should believe and READ YOUR BIBLE. I know it’s covered with dust and you don’t remember that last time you read it because you loved God and not because you had a message to write, but take a sabbatical (go into the wilderness) and learn to love God again.

By: Sherry

Sherry — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:29:23 +0000

My husband and I, our daughter’s family, and many friends are really struggling with this situation. Our Evangelism committee wanted to hang a beautiful gift painting of the Apostles’ Creed in our church but were denied permission by a 10-8 vote of our church council. The liberal group who controls the council said that people who do not believe in the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection would be offended by the painting. When asked 3 times in a subsequent meeting if the UMC still believes in the Resurrection, our senior pastor was silent. Our associate pastor told me when I complained that we never hear about the atonement in our church that they were encouraged in seminary “not to make an idol of Jesus”. Since I do, indeed, worship him that really upset me. The liberal group pride themselves on their intellectualism. One told me that they “believed those things when they were children” and I replied that I still do.
Another charge against evangelicals is that we are unloving and uncompassionate. I feel that because of our deep love for Jesus and gratitude for the salvation God provides us through him we are compelled to act in love to others. Our family shows this a false charge, I believe, by working with “illegal” Hispanic families in providing rent, transportation to doctor’s appointments, aiding in obtaining work permits, ETC., volunteering at the local food and clothing distribution center, sposoring children through Compassion in the Dominican Republic and Colombia, sponsoring Campus Crusade missionaries in Kyrzgystan for example.
After 63 years in the UMC, I have become embarrassed to answer when someone asks where I attend church. I feel that I should expand upon my answer with, “but I don’t think Jesus was just a great man and a good example for us to follow, but my Savior and my Lord.”

By: Pastor Vicky

Pastor Vicky — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 03:24:25 +0000

I’m not sure the most important distinction is between ‘liberal’ and ‘evangelical’. I think it’s between those who are about ’seeking and saving the lost’ and those who are about anything else.

I have been in many ‘evangelical’ churches, UMC and otherwise, who don’t give a rat’s hiney about those who are unreached. They are dying just like many of the liberal ones.

Many have abandoned our original mission. Our doctrinal purity or interpretation of scripture isn’t THE problem. Our disagreement about what the real mission is - that’s the problem. As long as we think it’s about ‘defending’, ‘protecting’ (whether that’s a theology, worship style or instiution) or anything other than ’seeking and saving those who are lost’, then we’re headed for decline - liberal or evangelical.

By: Debbie

Debbie — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 08:53:28 +0000

I am often mistaken for a liberal because I dress in tie die and a railroad hat. As a result I have had people share with me as if I were a confidant. Here is what I have learned.
The liberal pastors think that they are the minority. They think that if there is a split they are the ones that will lose the most. They are afraid of losing retirement and careers. I tend to believe they might be right.
The Methodist church needs to get bold about the truth of scripture or it will die. If a split happens I think you will be supposed at the growth the evangelical side of the church will make.
I grew up in the church. I’m a 2nd generation preachers kid. I have left.
I would find a church with a good bible based pastor and after a few years the conference would move in a new pastor that was very liberal. I got tired of linking with community only to see it torn apart by apostasy.
I hardly think that I am alone.
I think there are many who are wishing they could be Methodist and not have to tolerate bad teaching and the over indulgence of sin.

By: Mike Cooper

Mike Cooper — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:38:18 +0000

The last sentence of the last post should have read “On the other hand, the actions and beliefs of a liberal Christian would not be much affected.”

It is then really impossible for orthodox Christians and liberal Christians to be in harness together, as they are 2 different religions, as opposed to different shades of the same religion.

By: Mike Cooper

Mike Cooper — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:21:53 +0000

The difference between a “liberal Christian” and an “evangelical (or orthodox) Christian” is this. If it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus Christ never lived, or that he lived but was never resurrected, an evangelical Christian’s belief system and values would be crushed. On the other hand, the actions and beliefs would not be much affected.

By: Jessica

Jessica — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:44:44 +0000

I don’t have a strong opinion on whether we split or not. The UMC has a broad spectrum of theology, and formally splitting would encourage polarization into two camps, forcing moderates to the extremes. On the other hand, perhaps a formal distinction between “liberal Methodists” and “evangelical methodists” would prevent a lot of ill-fitting appointments, when a liberal pastor is sent to a conservative church, or (very rarely) vice versa.

By: Pastor Alan Brown

Pastor Alan Brown — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:07:11 +0000

I hear very clearly what you are saying and see, to some degree, the merit in what you are sassing. however I would say that the issues the divide the UMC are not only theological i.e. conservative v/s liberal but there many more as well including worship style, sacramental emphasis, purposed methodology concerning the future of local pastor and elders. The list could go on. Even though I am orthodox, highly sacramental and evangelical, I personally see our diversity as one of the things that makes us adaptable in making disciples in as many locations as possible.

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:47:12 +0000

“Evangelical” - the true meaning of this word has to do with sharing the good news of God’s love in Jesus Christ with people. Yet it’s come to be used to mean something else. When the church (UMC or universal) is being evangelical in the true sense, it will thrive.

Who counts the number of non-heterosexuals who wouldn’t darken the door of a church (even one that claims to have ‘open hearts, open minds, and open doors?’) Who counts their families and friends? There are a whole lot of people who are simply unreached by the church, so rather than fighting over the “churched,” shouldn’t we Christians be focusing outward?

By: BIll

BIll — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:45:45 +0000

Hey Craig, I love the Post, and to everyone else - thank you for sharing your insight; I’ve learned quite a bit from reading your comments. I do have a question, however: is reconciliation possible between these two parties? If so, what would that reconciliation look like, and what would either side have to be willing to give up on? I’m a UMC seminarian from a more evangelical UM Church, and I’ll admit I was pretty shocked when I started seminary. However, I’ve come to deeply love some of my more liberal classmates. That doesn’t mean I agree with everything they are doing - just that I see their passion for God and those around them, which is something we can all respect. Furthermore, I see that some UM Churches are already standing in the gap between the two sides - Churches like Resurrection in Kansas, which is packed with people who are willing to tackle tough issues. So while I agree that it looks like a split is imminent, and perhaps even desirable, I want to ask if perhaps there isn’t a better way - a way that allows us to be completely faithful to our faith yet is palatable to all. Perhaps we would have to invoke some radical Spirit-inspired creativity, but wouldn’t that be preferable to watching the church split and waiting for one side to crumble just so that we can feel justified?

By: UMJeremy

UMJeremy — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:31:15 +0000

In a world that is becoming more polarized and theologically ghettoized, perhaps the call of God on the United Methodist Church is to model unity in diversity.

As the rest of Christendom splinters and splits, the persistent temptation to live apart rather than be forced to learn how to live together is one to be resisted.