Comments on: Suggestions for Today’s “Relevant” Church

By: Paul Prins

Paul Prins — Thu, 21 May 2009 14:29:53 +0000

I feel like a key is to ask the simple questions about what one is doing. What is the desired result of this thing I am doing? Everything from sermon illustrations to other functions of a church. Then it simply comes down to have a disciplined church staff that is focused on reaching the lost and turning them into people who are becoming more and more like Christ.

The problem is that it gets easy to shift your focus into doing something bigger or better, and forgetting the reason for doing it in the first place. Once someone or some church is doing something just because it is only a matter of time until they become ineffective, regardless if they are ‘relevant’ or not.

By: Donovan Price

Donovan Price — Wed, 20 May 2009 18:37:55 +0000

I would like to submit that the question of relevancy as it relates to the church being culture is a mute point, when one actually consider what it means to be relevant to something. By definition, being relevant supposes that the thing that is being relevant is aiding in the accomplishment of the purpose, or task of the object that is it relevant to. If this is the case then one should pose the question “Is the church helping culture accomplish it’s task or purpose?” Moreover, “What is the task or purpose of culture?” It is my contention that the church is by function of it’s nature incapable of being relevant to any particular culture. I will allow however, that it is possible for culture to be relevant to the purpose and aim of the church. Just as the pipe wrench is relevant to the task of the plumber, while the accordion remains irrelevant to the plumber in his aim to fix the leaky toilet. The question of what is culturally relevant to the church is certainly open for discussion, as long as one remembers that the purpose of the church is to bring salvation to the world through Christ Jesus.

By: rafa

rafa — Tue, 19 May 2009 18:56:49 +0000

“Relevant”…we teach our member to serve and there questions when they greet each other is about the business of church:”where are you serving at?”. Our men serve but no accountability to each other is taught. The church teaches “accountability” by “confrontation and accusation”. We are sleek, we have seeker sentive churches and God is seeking, calling all. The church must understand programs are just guidelines, we must understand that God has called us from day one to understand his heart/his way, the way everlasting. Psalm 139:23-24

By: Greg

Greg — Tue, 19 May 2009 17:13:54 +0000

Great blog everyone!

Response part 1 Is it a real suprise that we would actually “find life” outside of the church. Isn’t that where Jesus told us to be? That pesky verse about going into the world and preaching the Gospel has always caused the modern church SO much problem. Sheep produce sheep. It is not the pastor…or the staff’s responsibilty to present the Gospel message to all of your unsaved friends. That would be your task. Funny thing is that by doing so…you find life. No one could ever be more relevant in your lost friends eyes than you. They relate to you…you are relevant to them. The teaching in the church should equip people with tools that enable them to go into the world…Take a look at Col 3:12-14…Clothe yourself in these things, and be Like Christ.

Response part 2 Who is God of the house? Knowing that God is a jealous God, and will not stand along side pride, who is the focus of the gathering? Ask yourself this question: If I were to invite a non believer to church this Sunday…what would be the attraction that I sell them on? Is it on my Pastors great humor and intellectual presentation of the gospel? Maybe it is the incredible worship team…who by the way just released their third worship CD. Maybe it’s the people…yeah that’s it…we are a friendly church.

Or…maybe it is because God alone is glorified in the house in all of our responses. We consider it a priviledge to be invited to come into His house each week…can’t wait to get there…cause we have a few things on our heart that we want to share with Him…in His house. This is HIS day…it is ALL about Him…and ALL for Him. I don’t care why you came…I came to give Him the shout of the day.

If the sound system didn’t work…if the projector lamps were all dead, and no backup. If the pastor lost his voice and couldn’t bring the Word…if the worship team all had the swine flu and couldn’t come…:-)

Who is the focus of the gathering? Pastor…are you more concerned about pleasing the people…or the King? Worship leader…are you concerned about singing the right song…or that a given percentage of the congregation are participating…or is it an audience of One? Would you absolutely “lose it” if the presence of the Lord was so strong that the band just stopped playing in the middle of the set. How would you respond? This will define what you define as relevant.

So here is the real thermometer of what is going on at your place of worship: What do people leave talking about? That is what your focus is…

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:00:26 +0000

I know this will sound like an over-generalization to some, but the reality is that as long as God is speaking, it is necessarily relevant because he is the creator and we are his creation. To often we fall into the trap of thinking that God needs our help with this whole relevant topic. The Church doesn’t need translators for God, we just need to be more willing to drown out all the other noise, and do the hard work of getting to know God more. I know this is a scary thought for many, but if God really is who we say he is, we shouldn’t be worried about it. The fact is that God has placed his people in each church they are in to do the job that needs to be done there. Being relevant is not the “do what works” mentality that seems like such a convincing argument. Being relevant is doing what God has gifted you to do in your own context. He knows exactly what he is doing!

By: Randy Mellichamp

Randy Mellichamp — Mon, 18 May 2009 13:45:57 +0000

I am wrestling with relevancy and how to see that translate into the ever changing culture of the people who are coming to our church. The Lord has moved greatly in our area and we are being blessed with new souls almost weekly. But thoes souls bring their situations and their needs that need to be met by a relevant church. I don’t know if I am saying this correctly but the issue that I am wrestling with is reaching people while keeping the recently converted on task, the already converted involved, and the always be a pain people out of the way. Any help?

By: M.McMillan

M.McMillan — Sat, 16 May 2009 03:44:45 +0000

Jimmy, thanks for the prayers, hope you (or anyone else) don’t think I have an ax to grind with Life Church specifically–my post was spurred by years of similar experiences (before coming to OKC); and I do think there’s a place for stylistic differences in worship, building setup, presentation, etc. But I do think there is need for ongoing evaluation, as measured by standards that are maybe not always trendy, but still relevant for all Christ-followers…

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Sat, 16 May 2009 02:54:53 +0000

M.McMillan, So sorry you are having a difficult time finding a church in OKC. I clicked on the link and your critique of Life Church. Too bad you left in the first 15 minutes and didn’t even stay for the message. It is understandable that you didn’t like the style of worship, but I hope you wouldn’t judge a whole church based on 15 minutes and then walking out. I pray you find a great church.

By: M.McMillan

M.McMillan — Sat, 16 May 2009 02:13:16 +0000

I actually visited one of the many branches of Life Church in the OKC area not too long ago… And my impression was not very positive, I’m sad to say. I felt like things were more “cheesy” and “gimmicky” than edgy or cool. And the “relevance” of the whole place/experience was equally questionable.

I’m fairly new to the OKC area, and my search for a new local church has been pretty discouraging—because most of the Protestant evangelical churches are part of the unhappy trend you describe in your post. Still, I am glad to hear that folks from Life Church (and elsewhere) are cognizant of the need for balance, and continual re-evaluation. If you’re interested in reading more on what I experienced on my visit to Life Church, you can check out my own blog post at: http://micahmcmillan.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/church-search-okc-part-2/

By: Kent M. Gibbs

Kent M. Gibbs — Fri, 15 May 2009 23:26:48 +0000

Just as an aside, I wonder if the so called ‘Emergent’ church isn’t really a rebellion against the ‘relevant’ church with much of it’s superficiality?

By: Kent M. Gibbs

Kent M. Gibbs — Fri, 15 May 2009 23:16:12 +0000

First little background. I have sat in the congregation as a member, been an elder and been part of a church based ministry. I have known, had fellowship with and been a loving brother to a number of Pastors from various denominational and non-denominational churches. Most have had a deep desire to see the lost saved and to love the members of their churches.

But, I must confess to an unease about where the church is at and where she is going spiritually. This has been a concern for more than twenty years. Sadly, in the attempt to be ‘relevant’ the Gospel has become irrelevant for ’salvation’. “Pray the Prayer and You’re In” has become the norm. What we have lost is the fact that God alone calls men and women out of darkness. Our mission is to present the Gospel, the Good News. The truth. That means Genesis to Revelation. Christ Jesus is in all of it. Some will accept it because of the quickening by the Holy Spirit but most will reject it.

And genuine believers are starving to death because it’s not being preached. Genuine growth in Christians is stunted because the weekly message is so watered down that there is no meat in it. Why? Because there might be someone sitting out there that will be ’sold’ on the message and “Pray the Prayer”. Sunday services are for the elect, not the lost. The sheep will bring in the lost if they are being fed.

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By: bcooley

bcooley — Fri, 15 May 2009 02:53:03 +0000

A few days of thought has prompted me to add that a relevant church must be deeply rooted in prayer as well as the Word. The Author will, of course, have the best advice for us regarding our interaction in the world, yet not of it.

By: Kalum

Kalum — Thu, 14 May 2009 12:28:06 +0000

Pastor Craig,

As I read this post I am encouraged about your openness to see when you are in a place of change in your ministry.

I am planting a church and the funny thing is that we have called the church “relevant church”. I agree with some of the other comments here that state that relevance is not in the methods, but the message. I know that the one thing that has always been relevant is the message of Jesus Christ. It is the same message that was spoken 2000 years ago and it will be the same message that will be spoken 2000 years from now. Our conviction is to see the culture that we a giving the message in and making it “relevant” to them. The relevance of our delivery method must always be flexible to the times and culture we are living in. As we change our delivery method, the “relevant” message of God’s love for us through Jesus Christ will never change.

This is my view on being relevant.

By: Kevin Thomas

Kevin Thomas — Wed, 13 May 2009 01:38:34 +0000

In Australia I was involved with the team pioneering the Willow Creek Association 15years ago. It was then that Bill Hybels launched the message of cultural relevance which took the local church by storm. However, sin being in nature what it is, it was not long before some were driven by cultural relevance instead of being driven by Kingdom culture and sadly the world’s standards & practices began to blur the lines.

If only we had listened more closely to what Bill actually said. He said, be culturally relevant while remaining doctrinally pure! Ooops that was the anchor to stop us drifting into dangerous waters of compromise!

By: Joe Ayala

Joe Ayala — Tue, 12 May 2009 23:57:21 +0000

Oh and one more thing on Relevance. All of the preachers before our time, Preached. That is all they did. Charles Spurgeon, John Huss, John Knox, John Calvin, the Wesleys, Martin Luther even started the reformation just by the Word of God. I do not think it is bad, it is just not necessary if your preaching the Gospel and your flock are too. And that would be evangelism, something nobody does cause nobody has been taught, or they claim it is for those who are gifted in evangelism. Which I believe is not biblical and it was a command to preach the Gospel. Mark 16:15

By: Joe Ayala

Joe Ayala — Tue, 12 May 2009 23:49:06 +0000

Craig! An excellent example of what Paul Allen was talking about in the first comment is Pastor Matt Chandler and The Village Church (Highland Village). The church brought in Matt Chandler 6 years ago and it went from 160 people to over 5000 people and more now. Because he preached 45-60 minute Grace Filled, Theology Filled Meaty Sermons! This is what we need! We need Meat, The Gospel so we can know God, preach the Gospel and preach it while we are feeding the hungry, clothing the poor. Because the salvation of their soul is most important.

Mark 16:15

By: Joe Ayala

Joe Ayala — Tue, 12 May 2009 23:36:36 +0000

First of all, Kudos to Paul Allen for recommending Michael Horton’s book: ‘Christless Christianity’
Very very good read. Second, Craig, you are a great pastor. God has really used you in a big way and this is a very big topic in certain evangelical circles. Others and I have seen a shift in the members of denominations. While some preachers are preaching 30 minute topical sermons, the members are hungry for deep theology. Theology is not boring, because it brings us to know Gods Attributes and who He is. Systematic Theology in general is what some generations are looking for. They have heard the “relevant” churchgoers say it is boring and not necessary. The truth is, there is a hunger in this generation for theology and after knowledge of God and growing in Holiness through Gods Word. I believe a problem with service and volunteering has alot to do with it too. If the new Christians, at first would spend time in theology or deep classes. And example would be Mark Driscoll’s church and the massive teaching they provide for their members. I do not believe a Lifegroup can achieve this because without a Man of God, who spend his life learning and teaching the flock, there is only blind leading the blind. I just say FEED ME I NEED MEAT! Lets Do it! Call up Mark Driscoll and ask his opinion and check out the results over at Mars Hill (WA).
Hope that made sense!
Love Ya Craig!

By: Rife Stewart

Rife Stewart — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:35:23 +0000

Philip, you sound exactly like the heart we are looking for. Email me and tell me more about your ministry and passion; your location etc. pastor@jubileechurch.com

By: Jon Wilke

Jon Wilke — Tue, 12 May 2009 15:27:47 +0000

Great discussion Craig. Simply put, I think the relevant church has to be a church of the Word.

Jesus came to give us live and “life more abundantly.”

When Jesus said, “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” It’s the truth people know (and apply, i.e. obey) that helps them live that abundant life and produce fruit.

With 65% of believers never having read the New Testament and some estimates say as few as 10% have ever read the entire Bible, how can we get our people back into the Word? And then live it out in a culture that has drowned our generations with ungodliness?