Should I Stay Or Should I Go?—3
You should consider leaving your current ministry when you realize that you are in the way.
Several months ago, I had lunch with an old friend and staff member from another church. The last time we had lunch (about ten years ago), he was griping about all the problems in his church. Although I didn’t tell him then, I thought privately that if he was on my staff and that miserable, I’d probably prefer that he’d leave.
There we sat, ten years later, and he still hated every thing about his church. He was critical of his pastor, critical of the elders, and critical of the direction of the church.
I politely asked him if perhaps his negative attitude might be slowing the progress of the church? After some painful introspection, he acknowledged that I might be right. As of today, he is still at the same church resisting everything the leaders attempt.
If you hate everything about where you are, maybe it is time to do ministry somewhere else.
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Sounds quite common, unfortunately.
I kinda agree with your point Craig, but shouldn’t we try to fix things at all costs rather than just try to go away from them?
It’s very likely that if I have problems in my current ministry, I will also have problems in the next one. People often move to another town or start attending a different church, and things seem to be a lot better at first. But if the problem has also been inside them (as well as in their ministry), the same problem is likely to arise also in the new place.
Someone said that God won’t usually change our conditions, but He will use our conditions to change us. Does that apply here..?
On the other hand, I know that from a leaders perspective, getting rid of difficult people is… well… :)
Well said!!! There is nothing worse than being stuck in a rut. One or two things need to change…1….attitude (how we see the situation) This can be our biggest problem or obstacle of the situation. 2… if it is just a toxic environment for you or there are completely different core ideals….move on…
it took the Israelites 40 years to make an 11 day trip to the promised land…the bible says they were murmuring and complaining the whole time..hmmm How many years do we really WANT to wander around in the desert? Me…not so much…Great POST….Thanks for making my decaffinated brain think this AM. :)
I’m not clergy but rather a business manager of a church. My family and I belong to another one. I have very negative feelings about our family’s church. I’m staying because the rest of my family likes it. At times I don’t know if it is that particular church or if it because I’m so involved in the church scene as an employee that it affects my attitude.
This look at ministry has been refreshing and enlighting everybody. Only wish I had you all to bat it around years ago when faced with making these kind of descions. It brings great freedom to realize you can leave a certain structure and yet not be against it in anyway, even wish it well; this kind of freedom is in deed liberating, but it’s not the norm as you all well know. I stayed way too long in a structure that wouldn’t allow such discussions before stopping them somehow, but written in to the script of most structures is, you don’t leave. If it’s not out and out taught it sure is passed on somehow. The battle between having a critical eye and not being critical is huge, but by His Spirit it is the lead we must follow. I often spoke of freedom in Christ, but to live it is much better. Thanks Craig!
True…even for partners or church members.
he’s comfortable, and safe.
http://www.openapologies.com is asking a hard question about that today!
thanks for the honesty!
I did something on the other end of this equation that might be of assistance. I held onto someone who should have gone. When we started our church one of the key people who helped us start was a very hard working guy. After about 3 years the church had grown and literally we had outgrown him. He tried to leave several times. I didn’t let him. I would talk to him and talk him out of it. Not only did it slow us as a church down but it slowed his growth down. He did eventually leave and it was not good. We haven’t talked for a few years now. I call it the “Mercy Keep”. I had so much compassion for the guy that I thought he could grow into our culture. It never happened.
Janne, I agree with you idea of working through conflict. What I was trying to illustrate here is chronic disagreement.
Troy, Good insight on the other side of the coin.
When it gets to the point of being in the way, it’s probably at the point where the “being in the way” is a result of not being in line with God’s will. I’ve seen in many pastors that have ignored God’s call to leave a certain ministry setting, but they’ve been unwilling to move on. And they’re miserable (which is pretty much what happens when we’re not doing what God wants for our lives). There’s my random thoughts.
I so much agree with this post. What I see too many times is a pastor or minister who is simply afraid to walk by faith again, even though that’s the life God has called each of us to. If I’m in the way, I need to go. If the problem always comes back to me, it’s time to hit the road.
Sorry to promote my own stuff again, but this concept prompted this post: http://www.ronedmondson.com/2008/10/8-ways-to-know-it’s-time-to-quit.html So this is a question I’ve been wrestling with for several months. There seems to be more of these struggles than I’ve experienced before, perhaps due to the clashing of cultures, generations, and ideas on how church is supposed to be done these days.
The question I can’t always answer, and I would love input on it here, is should the person resign before they have their next assignment or should they stay until God opens the next door? I know that will depend on the situation, but I struggle with advising people in this area.
I love this stuff….makes the mind work and the heart act. In the Navy we would always say a complaining (not the word used back in the day) Sailor is a happy one. Some folks are just crabby, argumentative and grouchy in nature. But I agree with you Craig at some point are those folks destroying more than they are building.
I find that those who are like this are not happy with life and are without joy because they are “masters of manipulations and control freaks.” I think we fail these folks by not speaking to the problem of their chronic disagreement. Change want happen until they are aware of the problem but then it still takes action from the crabby one to change.
Living Life Large
This couldn’t come at a better time for me personally.
From my 10 years of pastoring, it seems that pastors leave churches all too often citing “God’s Call” when what they’re really after is a bigger church with a bigger salary, or they simply refuse to work through conflict. It’s no wonder we have church hoppers when we have hopping pastors! That said, I think this is one of the most valuable topics because there certainly IS a time and place to humble yourself before the Lord and ask whether or not you are in the place and position of His timing…because you may in fact be slowing down the progress of your current church or those around you!
Don’t leave if:
- you have unfinished business that God originally called you to
- your relationships would suffer at the expense of your impatience for God’s timing.
- you have only sought the counsel of “yes men” that will only tell you what you want to hear.
- you are searching for success (we should be searching for obedience).
There is a reason pastors burn out and why such a high percentage of church plants fail in their first year. We must humble ourselves and determine whether it’s really God’s voice, or an itch that we just want to scratch!
Thanks for the valuable post and comments!
Does this question not come down to us seeking God’s will for ourselves and His church? To not do so would have us all bailing out too soon or overstaying our calling. There is a prayer I’ve prayed throughout my ministry…”Father, take away anyone who is stifling the work of the Holy Spirit, including me.”
Ron,
If you wait to leave until you have another job are you walking by faith (as you alluded to at the start of your post)?
Troy said….”He tried to leave several times. I didn’t let him. I would talk to him and talk him out of it. Not only did it slow us as a church down but it slowed his growth down.”…I have neverrrrrrrrr seen holding on to people work for good….they actually spread their discontent…
Brian and Scott, those are awesome posts.
Many people who are in the way or disgruntled need a perspective change. Jenn is right about attitude being the centre of it all. How you leave a job will affect how you enter a new one. If it is time to leave and you have a gracious attitude, acting in love, leaving will be a blessing for all.
Brian, I appreciate your thoughts.
Scott, Great prayer.
Ron asked, “…should the person resign before they have their next assignment or should they stay until God opens the next door?”
I’ve never been a big fan of people quitting before having another role. Maybe that is my lack of faith or simply a father wanting to make sure his family is fed.
Although this certainly doesn’t work well everywhere, I prefer transparency of all parties involved. If I had a staff member that didn’t agree with the vision and direction, I’d want to know and give that person time to transition out.
Craig: I have been reading each of these posts with interest but find myself not sure how to respond. I can honestly say I have never been happier as the pastor of a church than I am right now. The past 3 years have been one of those “where have you been all these years” kind of rides. The struggle my wife and I now face is we have a 2 year old grandson who lives 4 hours away. We miss him a lot. I have no desire to leave this church, none whatsoever. But I miss seeing my grandson and getting to be “grampa” to him. Do you plan on covering that any? Oh…I also agree with your response to Ron. Terrible terrible idea to leave without somewhere to go (wife and kids get a little ouchy) unless you absolutely believe God is calling you away. (Charles Hall left New Hope in Loudonville recently to plant a church somewhere else and having no clue where. He does now…Salt lake City). That takes a man of incredible faith. Not sure I am there. BTW: these have been fantastic posts.
What if it’s an issue where you love the church, agree and bought into the vision and the pastor, but don’t see any opportunities to grow (i.e. not being given more responsibilities/leadership positions)? I have had thoughts about leaving the church but can’t bring myself because of the people there, whom I’ve grown to love over the years. Maybe, it’s the case that one is to accept one’s lot/role in life whether it may be as a leader or just as a regular member and not so much what I want to do and my desire to serve God in the best way. Maybe, it’s there’s too much of an American individualism influence on this topic and what is missing is the emphasis of placing the church/community way above the individual needs/wants even if it’s related to a desire to do more for God.
True dat.
I tend to agree with the comments about it being more about sacrificial obedience than leaving to find somewhere where you can feel successful. As long as your frustration turns you toward humility rather than bitterness, it’s probably a good thing for all parties.
I think about John the Baptist a lot. It sure didn’t turn out for him the way people would think. I don’t think career success and realization of the change you hope for and vision you see is always a reality to strive for. I haven’t done the math, but I would guess most prophets died without seeing their visions come to pass.
Not sure if anyone else has said this, but I’d also add that maybe he needs to reconsider being in ministry at all. Unfortunately there are ALWAYS gonna be things that you don’t like and if you can’t suck it up at that church, chances are you won’t be able to at the next church either.
Craig, I’ve really appreciated this week. A couple years ago I had to address many of the questions you’ve asked and ended up leaving a church I’d helped build for four years. Now I’m part of a new ministry and have a pressing question I’m sure you’ve had to address as the “face” of lifechurch.tv- what measures do you take to make sure the ministry has a life that will far exceed the time of your presence/leadership?
Bill, All these posts and discussions are simply indicators of what God could be saying. As you implied, our happiness isn’t the only or best indicator of where God wants us. Ultimately, God has to direct our steps. I know He will for you.
Clive asked a good question. Maybe some of you can weigh in.
Thanks Craig. Trusting Him on that. My answer to Clive: I think some of it depends on what you believe has and is calling you to. I know that sounds “man-centered” but it doesn’t have to be. Perhaps God has used these past years to groom you for something in your future and He is just now putting that restlessness in your spirit. I also think that restlessness could be there because God has a plan for your unique gifts in another community/church. Just said a “dangerous” prayer for you.
also…it is Charles Hill not Hall. My fingers type faster than my brain goes. :)
Craig : first of all I will congrats you for this post!
Someone said that God won’t usually change our conditions, but He will use our conditions to change us..
Hey Clive, I have been in a similar situation for a time.
I would pray and pray about my situation, then God just finally flat out said it’s time to learn to grow on your own.
There is always more than you can do and learn. You can start action groups, another small group to study and learn. This is where you learn real character and growth. So you don’t get an official responsibility or title, it doesn’t mean that God won’t use you, just means you don’t get paid or recognized for it here on earth. What is your burden? You Holy discomfort? Throw yourself in it. There is always some other ministry or need that you can throw yourself into.
Thank you for sharing on this topic Pastor Craig. I left a church 6 months ago after being in ministry for 10 years. I haven’t found a new position yet, but I have been attending the south Tulsa campus and to say the least it has been life changing. During this time I have questioned the timing of my departure, but at the same time have experienced healing through your teaching. These series of posts have been very helpful.
Good thing Joseph did not follow this advice while rotting in an Egyptian prison.
Craig, thanks for answering. This topic really seems to be experienced by everyone here..
Maybe I’m just too naive, but having seen God change even a hard pharisee and complainer like myself, I can’t imagine anyone He wouldn’t eventually do the same to. At least I wouldn’t want to be on His way if He’s still working on someone.. althou I sometimes really hope it would be His plan to do that somewhere else.
And in the case of some of us (I own a mirror)… He just seems to need some more time. :)
[...] Should I Stay Or Should I Go? Great stuff here - mirrors exactly what I was thinking and feeling when I made the choice to obey the Spirit’s leading and leave Parker. Tough choices - but necessary ones! [...]
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