The Challenge of Ministry Friendships 5 (of 5)
Becoming Friends With Your Pastor
PART B
8. We love talking to the real you. Many people show us a spiritual front. Truthfully, we’d rather see your dark side than a fake spiritual one. Thank you for being yourself!
9. We are slow to open up. It is not because of you. We’ve been hurt many times by people who say the same things you are saying to us. Give us time.
10. If we can’t be close to you, it doesn’t mean we don’t truly love you. We only have room for a handful of very close friends. We simply don’t have the time or energy to be close to tons of people. Please don’t take it personally.
11. Please don’t try to use our kids to get to us. We love our kids and don’t want anyone to use them. Our kids also can’t go to every kid’s birthday party from the church.
12. If we ever say “no” to you, please understand that it is very hard for us. We want to serve you. We want to minister to you. We want you to like us. Sometimes, we simply can’t do everything. We hope you understand.
13. More than anything, we want to represent Christ to you. When we let you down (and we will), we pray you will show us grace.
14. We want you to know that we value your prayers more than you will ever know.
15. When you do become our close friend, you are an answer to prayer and a gift from God!
Dive in! What are your thoughts?
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[...] 21, 2008 Posted by mandoron in Misc.. trackback Craig has some great suggestions here and here on how to have a friendship with your [...]
Hey Craig, how about: Allow us to say, “Wow, great question. I have no idea…” We’re not Jesus, the Apostle Paul, the Pope, or even Charles Barkley - sometimes we come across a topic we’re not experts at…yet
[...] Check out part A HERE. Part B is found HERE. [...]
#11 is very true. We have 8 kids and can’t possibly go to all the birthdays of all of their friends. Nor can we afford a present for all of them that doesn’t come from the Dollar Store.
That made me think of another one: If your kid is selling something for school, scouts, ball team, etc., understand that if I say “No” it isn’t that I don’t want to support them. I can’t possibly buy from every kid in the church who’s selling something…as much as I’d like to. I hate having to tell one kid that I already bought from another, so I just don’t buy stuff from any of them. Don’t be offended by that and explain it to your kids so that they will understand.
Keep It Real!
“We want you to know that we value your prayers more than you will ever know.”
I haven’t been a member of life for 3 years… but I still pray for the staff and the senior pastor… I feel invested…
I have added a lot of pastors to my prayer list from this blog…
Avery, Thanks for your continued prayers! That means the world to me!
Thanks Craig for the blog. This is one of those struggles that my wife and I deal with very often. We have been hurt so many times, just when the scab gets ready to come off you get cut again. The challenge has always been a good balance and we are still learning. I posted this on my blog as well for our church. thanks!
I realize there are some pastors who use friendships for their gain. I want a friend who realizes I’m not like that. I just want a friend. No strings attached. What is strange is many of my unchurched friends are more real than those in the church.
Craig,
I’m spurred on by your courage, vulnerability and transparency. I wonder how our churches would change if we all risked speaking the truth in love? (Not just the truth of God’s Word, but also the truth of our experience as co-members of the same body).
In a reply to your last post on this subject, Steve wrote, “My wife is going to frame this post or anonymously put it on a bulletin board at church” I laughed, and then I thought about it. What a sad testimony that pastors and leaders in the church are so afraid of being transparent because of the fear of being hurt, fired, etc., etc. How can we be the church together in that atmosphere?
Is it pastor? Is it congregation? Is it both? If so, who is going to change first? I think your transparency (starting with Confessions of a Pastor) is providing a new model for pastors and congregations.
Keep it up!
mdd
I love number 8.
I’d add…”please if you want to get close to me…don’t smell like 3 day old egg salad and old spice”…maybe that just happens to me…love this series of posts!
Maybe you’re like me when it comes to your “friends” only calling you when a major decision is about to be made by you and your staff. It feels like they’re only calling when they want information.
I would like to confront these people in a loving way about how that makes me feel. What are some thoughts about how to go about this?
My husband was formerly in ministry and now doing lay ministry so it has helped us have a closer perspective when having relationship with our church staff. And it is so good to have these things spelled out for people. The hard thing is so many church members “partners” come into these friendships wanting certain things instead of having their focus on how they can bless their leaders. Pastors and staff have so much on their plates that I wish members could really look to minister to you all without expecting so much in return. And I loved the part about giving you grace b/c you are human and when you really let people in close obviously they will find flaws. So when your pastor lets you in don’t be shocked to find out they are not perfect and then become disillusioned! They are human and sinful….pray for them and lift them up. IT is hard b/c I have seen so many church leaders hurt by their congregations and I wish more people sought to protect their staff:) Thanks for these blogs, they are so awesome!
“We love talking to the real you. Many people show us a spiritual front. Truthfully, we’d rather see your dark side than a fake spiritual one. Thank you for being yourself!”
Boy, am I glad Scott said that because, unfortunately, with me all you get is the real me. But, we as partners, do have a spiritual duty and obligation to love our pastors and further, to lift them (and family and LC) up and cover them in prayer. I wonder if pastors would respond more openly to the body if they sensed that that body member was actually praying for them daily, rather than demanding from them daily. My wife’s dearest and closest friends (and my favorite people) are the ones that pray for her AND tell her that they are.
Amen on the parties and other events. We get a lot of invites to places and we feel so honored to be thought of. However, if we went to every event we were invited to we’d be flat broke, spending a fortune on gas and gifts and never, ever home.
I’ve also learned that when we say “no”, we don’t have to give an excuse. We rarely do. Our “no” should be enough. If it isn’t, well, then tough cookies
“We only have room for a handful of very close friends. We simply don’t have the time or energy to be close to tons of people. Please don’t take it personally.”
Sometimes I think we as Christians forget that we have an ETERNITY to enjoy fellowshipping with one another. We will get to hang out in Heaven together - and it will be better and far more special than hanging out here on Earth. With that said, I look forward to meeting all of you up there! Love, peace, and hair grease!
Thank you so much for sharing this!
I loved both part A and B. I’m going to print them out and pass them along. After being a pastor for more than 18 years I wish I would have had this list sooner. Thank you for putting into words what I’ve always wanted to say.
Wow. What an interesting conclusion to a series on the “Challenge of Ministry Friendships.”
Thursday’s post began “I’m writing this post for church members” and ended with “Pastors, where do you agree?” Who was it for again? I’m very surprised by the minimal number of member/partner responses to an entry supposedly targeted toward them, but maybe I should’t be if they feel like I did at first(keep reading). I’m not surprised, however, by the number of “Right Ons!” from the pastors. I’m sure it’s refreshing to pastors that “someone finally said it!” Plus, it’s easier to ride on the bus than drive it.
The list of suggestions began “If you want to become friends with your pastor, here are some suggestions:” It seems from the list of suggestions, the short answer is really….. “don’t.”
It is so refreshing to hear how members/partners can best serve their pastors because frankly, the suggestions make partners’ role easier. The mentioned suggestions lead members/partners toward: praying for their pastors, creating margin for their pastors with gift cards and sending encouraging notes. The suggestions lead members away from: dinner invites, conversations with their pastors and inclusion of the pastor’s kids when it’s invitation writing time.
Further, it is insightful to realize that the suggestions could be reciprocal the from members’ perspective. For example:
1. Don’t be pushy. Pushy pastors come across as needy. We deal with needy people all day in our work, school and home.
2. “God told me” doesn’t work on us either. Tons of people have told us that before.
3. It’s tough having the pastor over for dinner. We work a lot. Our kids are busy. Having the pastor’s kids at our house is stressful too. A night at home alone is better for us too. It’s easier.
4. Babysitting others’ kids is tough! Agreed. It’s easier not to offer.
5. We love talking to the real you. Many pastors show us a spiritual front. Thank you for being yourself.
6. We are slow to open up. It is because of you(a pastor). We’ve been hurt many times by pastors who say the same things you are saying to us.
7. If we ever say “no” to you, please understand it is very hard for us (because your pressure it strong). We want to serve you. We simply can’t do everything. Pastor, we hope you understand.
8. More than anything, we want you to represent Christ to us. When we let you down (and we will), we pray you will show us grace.
Honestly, number 15 appears unobtainable and uninvited. 1-14 don’t seem to lead to 15. As a member/partner I can choose to pout because “he doesn’t wanna be my friend” OR I can choose to meet the stated needs of my pastor who has taken on a great responsibility that he/she feels they will have to answer to God for.
I’ll fess up. The posts stung a little as a member/partner(as I suspect it did others), but as I began to realize the real needs of my pastors, I began to realize I need to take ME out of it and serve my pastors in the most effective way. Rather than a friend to my pastor, I need to be a prayer warrior, margin maker and encourager.
Pastors, rock on. Thank you for accepting the responsibility. Members/Partners, let’s focus on meeting the needs our pastors have, not the ones we have for them to meet.
You guys are such an encouragement to others in the ministry. My husband is a pastor and I am president of a women’s ministry. Thank you for sharing with others so freely how God is working in your life. You are a blessing and a gift from God to us. Thanks, DuAnne Seeley, NYC
14. We want you to know that we value your prayers more than you will ever know.
This one definitely impacts me the most. I can’t tell you how much it means when someone tells me they are praying for me. I’m incredibly humbled every time I hear it.
Eric,
I agree with you completely that these can be turned around for the way pastors treat church attenders. (We have more than our share of problems.)
You seemed to have summarized my thoughts by saying you shouldn’t be friends with pastors. If you or others interpret it that way, I certainly did a poor job communicating.
We crave friendships.
I enjoy going to dinner at people’s house. I appreciate people babysitting for us. I appreciate people inviting my kids places.
Please remember, you might have one, two or three pastors. I might have one hundred, five hundred, or twenty thousand people I’m trying to love and lead.
I clicked on your site and saw you are an attorney. (Cool site btw… and I know you from church.) Most people don’t think, “Let’s have the attorney and his family over for dinner.” Many people think that for us. It is often a blessing. It is often challenging as well.
Undoubtedly as a pastor, we have an enormous amount of blessings. I don’t want to overlook those blessings. (I could list hundreds!)
In summary, people do treat us differently. Sometimes it is better and undeserved. Other times it is just different. Because it is different, it makes our road to friendships “feel” different. Maybe we just crave normal…
I’m sorry my words “stung.” Truthfully, most people in the church are incredible. I sincerely thank you for your encouragement at the end of your comment. God’s best to you and your 5 kids!
Craig,
I think you have best explained your position on declining invitations from your members/partners who want to get close to you when you use Nehemiah as an example: “I am carrying on a great project and cannot go down.” Neh 6:3. When you used Nehemiah to explaine your reason for saying “no” to some perfectly good things for the best things (time with family, personal health, etc),that really helped me understand your position. As a member/partner, I am comfortable with your decision to say “no” often and have implemented “no” into my own life, even when its tough, when “no” is the best decision.
The pastors of this decade are up against their members’ memory of their parents’ pastor’s role from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. From my viewpoint, ministry has changed and I’m sure it is a challenge for pastors to move forward without leaving casualties behind.
Anyway, I suppose choosing to lead a non-normal life leads to non-normal treatment. Thank you for sacrificing and not choosing to be normal for the sake of making an eternal difference.
Personal testimony on how these suggestions work. I attend a very large church (9,000) I knew my pastor from shaking his hand and from some volunteer meetings where he spoke to a core group. Long story short, by chance we stayed at the same hotel on the same floor in Orlando one year. He recognized me and said hello. I shook his hand and said to have fun. I proceeded to walk away. He seemed shocked. I wanted to respect his time away. We sent he and his wife gift cards to use at the resort for dinner. They invited us but we declinded. Again, respecting his time away. Long story short, over the next year we ran into one another more. One day he came over to me at church and invited me to lunch. He said that he was shocked at how I never tried to take advantage of his time and it began when we saw one another on vacation. That time would have been a perfect time to “get some alone time with his family”. I never did these things to get time with him, I just respected his space and what he had on his plate and was always real around him. I genuinely never had the desire to be close friends. A couple of years later we have lunch once a month, and our wives shop a good bit. But looking back on these points by Craig, we did a lot of these without knowing that was what we were doing. It works.
Craig’s Post on the Challenge of Ministry Friendships…
Craig Groeschel recently wrote two posts about pastoral relationships with members of their congregation. These are absolutely incredible posts! Take a look and come back and post your thoughts. You can read Craig’s posts here and here….
I am so thankful to be a part of LifeChurch.tv. I love it!! We are pretty new to the church and we are still figuring out the little things, like which kid goes to which room. We keep having birthdays. We love it. I picked my son up from toon town (his first time was today), Holy Cow, I want to stay in there and play! Love the blog and the transparency.
I know this is not really what your post was about but just wanted to share.
I am sorry where you have been wounded and hurt. I wish we as sheep weren’t so venomous at times. I pray the Lord would continue to bless the friendships and relationships you have, I pray Psalm 91 over you and your family and the other pastors and they’re families. I pray He would hide you under the shadow of His wings. I pray you are able to rest in the shadow of the Almighty! I pray that your children despite the church politics would be convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate them from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 3:38 I pray your children would know (that you Lord would write on their hearts) that they are the apple of God’s eye!!! Oh, how He delights in them!!!
i was so encouraged by your message on worry and bitterness!
this comment was way too long! sorry:) blessings:)
Donna, Welcome to the church family!
Thanks for sharing this stuff. My husband already posted on here but I wanted to say thanks for including the wife in when you talk about ministry challenges and letting people know that when our husbands hurt, we hurt just as bad. I appreciate you sharing yours and Amy’s experience so all of us who are teaming up to do ministry together can know how to help each other in our marriages and then we can effectively help people in our churches. My first ministry is to my husband and family. Thanks for your open talk.
Our Paster put this blog site in his weekly reflections to its members? I can’t figure out why? So that we would get it?
I just reread Craigs list of what a Pastor is really thinking about his members.
I can’t imagine Jesus saying any of those sentances!
One of his comments…we want to represent Jesus to you. Is he kidding?
I recently volunteered to watch my “campus pastors” children….not because I don’t have anything else to do. Believe me, I am very busy. I thought it was a “Christian”
thing to offer, so that him and his young wife could have some quality time without paying for a sitter. Please forgive me.
Craig, I believe you missed the part “The greatest of these is love”
Time to look for a new job where you don’t preach love.
Lin,
I think you missed the “spirit” of the posts. Your pastor linked to this… probably because he could relate to some of the challenges pastors face.
If you read the whole week of posts and comments, you’ll see pastors who genuinely want to love and be loved. People treat us differently. Sometimes better. Sometimes worse. Mostly just different.
(For example, telling me that I don’t preach love and should get a new job when you probably don’t know me… is different.)
I have six kids and received three offers this week from total strangers to watch my kids. I am grateful for each offer. But I don’t know any of the people. I have had people leave the church mad because we wouldn’t let them watch our kids.
It puts us in an awkward position when my wife is uncomfortable sending our kids to a strangers house.
You can minister to your pastor the way YOU want to. (And your pastor may be very blessed by all you do.) Or you can minister in a way that he/she says would really bless them.
Blessings to you.
Craig,
I think this may be a Mega-Church versus smaller church issue or even a senior pastor versus associate one. It also may have to do with how long you have lived in a community. Maybe if we found ourselves either in a senior pastorate or in a large church, I would feel quite differently. Maybe if I hadn’t recently moved to a new town after living for 36 years in the same area I’d feel differently. My husband is an assistant pastor. Our church has about 350 regular attenders. We know the majority either personally, by name or by reputation. We live in a small town of 10,000. We have very little crime in this town (probably due to the prevalence of hunting and open-carry laws regarding guns). Everyone knows everyone. If someone offered to babysit our kids, chances are either we or many of our friends would know this person and their reputation.
I think my main objection with this post is that it appears to lump everyone trying to make friends with a pastor into one category – those people who are out to get something from them. I know that this is probably not how you feel. I think –and I know you did not mean to come across this way, Craig. I have read enough of your posts to get a sense that you are a humble guy – that if I shared this with members of our congregation it would come across as rather arrogant. I agree with Eric. If I were a lay person reading this post I would assume that the best way to get to know your pastor is just don’t. As Eric also said, points “1-14 don’t seem to lead to 15″.
My husband and I don’t only mind getting invites from strangers in our church, we heartily welcome it. We hope that in accepting invitations like these (which for us are few and far between) we will eventually cease being strangers and find ourselves on the road to lasting friendships. However, if we begin to set up roadblocks such as “don’t invite us to dinner, offer to babysit our kids or invite our kids to birthday parties,” we miss out on some potentially valuable, life-impacting friendships. Our kids miss out as well. Our three kids get invited to a lot of birthday parties(probably about 5 a year per kid). They love them. I love that they get to go to them. But if I posted your list on our church’s website, I wonder if they would get any invites at all. People would be too afraid that they would be perceived as “using” our kids. I guess I assume that the reason they get invited is because those kids like my kids for who they are – pretty much wonderful kids. I honestly don’t think that their parents are trying to use them to get to us. We have many deep friendships in other places (not where we are currently living yet) ranging from 2 years to 30 years in length. At one point these dear friends were once strangers or acquaintances to us. A few were the primary initiators and may have been viewed by others as “pushy”. Many were formed because either they or we invited the other to dinner.
Carolyn,
I understand how this could come across as arrogant. I also agree with you that context matters a lot. A senior pastor’s perspective might be different than another pastoral role. The size of the church or town will also make a difference.
I probably shouldn’t have talked as much about kids. (Many pastors don’t have as many as we do. You can imagine the number of birthday invitation w/six kids and a large church.)
In our context, we have to fight for time alone with family. (I am not exaggerating. If we didn’t work hard for family time, we wouldn’t get it.)
Some can relate. Others crave more time with others.
I’m sorry when the suggestions hurt people. I’m glad when they were helpful.
Blessings.
Craig,
I think it is great that you are fiercely protective of your family time. Very few leaders to that. We have been in vocational ministry for almost 18 years and have seen the unfortunate results of leaders putting their ministry needs above their family. Parents discipling their kids and husbands and wives nurturing their own relationship has been a huge burden for us, both for our own family and for others as well — especially since Wyoming has consistently had one of the highest divorce rates for a long time. Tackling these things has been a big part of our ministry here. We realize that the enemy is on the prowl for Christian families in general and in particular the families of those in leadership.
Okay You have caused an uproar… I don’t know what the big deal is, because for me as a layperson all of those things are true. I don’t send my kids to just anyone, I don’t trust just everyone, and just cause I love you, does not that a best friend make. I feel like what you are truly trying to convey is that you can’t be everyone’s friend, but who can??? Some people hold you to a higher standard that is unrealistic, you are a teacher, a leader, and come on, How many disciples did Jesus have???? Not Hundreds. We are all blessed with new friendships from time to time, but like you said that takes time, and as a new member to a church there are others there that will be your friend if you want to. To truly develop a friendship it takes time and effort. And as church leaders you need others to lift you up not put more demands on you, so wake up people, give your leadership encouragement without expectations and know when you need intervention, they will be there, but they still may not become your friend. sorry those are just my brutally honest feelings. We all need love, and understanding. We are not Christ only striving to become like him, our leaders are people too.
[...] would encourage you to click on this link I posted earlier, read the comments from others. It might just give you a little peek into a whole [...]
Craig, I am new to your blog. I have followed your church and ministry for sometime now. I used to lead worship for Switch in Hendersonville. Lifechurch still holds a wonderful place in my life. Thanks so much for the impact that your ministry still has on mine and the leadership team that i am on. Thank you for the authenticity. I know that being in the public eye must mean that you have a big target on your back (some of the comments on this blog indicate that this is true). Keep it up man!