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The Challenge of Ministry Friendships 4 (of 5)
Becoming Friends With Your Pastor
Most of our blogging friends are pastors. A few are wonderful church members (or in our case, church partners). I’m writing this post for church members. Pastors, you might want to link to it so you can help your church members have insight into your world and know how to minister to you. I’m hoping many of you will add more insight to this subject.
I’ll break this post into PART A and post PART B tomorrow.
(Note: all pastors won’t agree with me. I’m guessing most will at most points.)
PART A
If you want to become friends with your pastor, here are some suggestions:
- Don’t be pushy. Pushy people come across as needy. We minister to needy people all day. We crave friendships not more counseling appointments.
- Don’t tell us “God told you” we’re going to be friends. He may have, but that doesn’t work on us. Tons of people have told us that before. Friendship for us needs to happen over time, not be born because of something God told you but not us.
- Coming to a stranger’s house for dinner isn’t the high point of our lives. (You know a lot about us. We don’t know as much about you.) We work a lot of nights. Our kids are busy. Finding a babysitter is hard. Bringing our kids to your house often puts stress on us. A night at home is often more meaningful than a dinner at your house. (Some pastors will disagree with me and be very blessed by these dinners. Most aren’t.)
- My wife doesn’t want to send our kids to your house just because you want to baby sit them. You are probably an incredible person, but we don’t know about your neighbors or your kids’ friends or your uncle that might come by. There are too many weird people for us to send our kids to your house without knowing more.
- We are grateful for “gift cards.” Many pastors don’t have the financial margin to take their families out. Gift cards mean a lot.
- We love talking to you about things besides church and the Bible. We have other interests like you.
- We love your notes of appreciation. They mean more than you know. You have a way of sending them when we really need them. Thank you!
(Eight more suggestions are coming tomorrow…)
Pastors, where do you agree? What would you add?
Visit 
Amen!
Yeah, Craig, you definitely don’t want your kids around my neighbors. Particularly the ones 2 houses to the North. God told me to tell you that. ;)
Thank you for your friendship and your ministry to me and my family…
Great stuff here! I know that on more than one occasion we have had people who have wanted to baby sit for us, and we did not feel comfortable letting them do it at all. We were able to say no, but there was a little tension there.
Also, I do want to talk about things other than the Bible, church, youth ministry, etc. When will someone want to talk to me about somthing else I’m interested in?
Looking forward to tomorrows list!
WOW! that pretty much says it.
Craig, thanks for validating how my wife and I feel, it encourages us to know that we aren’t the only freaks out there. :)
Great list I agree with it all how about adding:
We want to be around people that are real. Don’t put on the fake spiritual act.
We don’t always want to talk about the Bible and have impromptu bible studies.
We don’t want to pray for every meal just cause we are the pastor.
Craig,
I would love to go out to eat every Sunday but we live by a budget & it just isn’t in the budget. I hate saying no but I’m not going to ask someone else to pay.
Also, we home educate our kids. We aren’t weird, my wife doesn’t wear ugly dresses & have her hair in a bun. My kids are very well adjusted & see enough of the world in Church. :) Don’t ask us every week when we are going to put our kids in school. I don’t ask when are you going to pull your kids out.
Jason said, “We don’t always want to talk about the Bible and have impromptu bible studies.”
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!!! The next time someone says “what about a Bible study for ___________?” I am going to vomit! I am sick of Bible studies. Most Christians have more Bible knowledge than they will ever put into practical use. Enough with the Bible studies already!
[...] can be your friend, I can be your friend… 21 02 2008 Here is a great, GREAT post by Craig Groeschel, pastor of Lifechurch.tv in, well, just about every city in THE [...]
Very encouraging, i will pass this along because most don’t get it!
Jason — I am totally there with you on the whole you get to pray for the meal cause your the pastor thing. I even get this from my extended family at times =).
I was going to say that about praying for the meal!
I’m not the “pastor” but JT gets a lot of that stuff. I’ve also noticed that people tend to “clean it up” when we’re around. You’d think JT was Jesus himself sometimes! Our really close friends are the same with us as they are with anyone, probably even more themselves. Gotta be real!
I know, instead of inviting us for dinner, just pay for ours if you see us eating out…that will help the Witchers create margin :) see Groeschel’s dern message series “How to BE Rich” (loved it by the way - life changer)
Whoa, did any one else see that rabbit I just chased?
The “God told me” line is my favorite, er uh… not so favorite. Here are a few things I’ve heard…
God told me I was going to marry you.
God told me you are supposed to invest in my business.
God told me you were supposed to preach in my grandfather’s sports coat.
God told me that your wife and my wife are supposed to be best friends.
Should I go on? I hate the awkawardness that brings, and, in most cases, wouldn’t want to discount what they believe they have heard from God. What do you do? Craig nails it when he writes, “Friendship for us needs to happen over time, not be born because of something God told you but not us.” Thanks for these posts.
Take it from a pastor, being friends with a pastor doesn’t get you closer to God or brownie points at church. It might just do the opposite!!!
Man oh man it’s like we’re both in a similar life or something…good post Craig!
Every one of these was a direct hit. I’ve had so many people take the wrong steps towards friendship with me. I’ve also taken the wrong steps towards friendship with them. It took me a while to figure out just how rare a good friendship can be for a pastor.
Who are these crazy people that want to baby-sit Craig’s 17 kids?
Coming from a church “partner”, I want you pastors to know that we see the pushy people each weekend. It ends up keeping us less pushy just waving hello as we walk by. But please remember that your church members/partners really like you, and want you to stay encouraged because you are doing a great work. Please don’t let the pushy people and the people that complain about most everything discourage you…they are the vocal minority. The rest of us have your back, and we won’t even ask you to pray at the next meal we share.
the best time my wife and i had with our church staff… at a church we used to attend, we invited the staff and all of their families over for a holiday dinner, since they are all “away from home”. (we had established friendships prior to this) but we had a Texas Hold’em tournament and had a blast… it was great to see ties loosened and sleeves rolled up and cards in their hands… yes they still wore(wear) ties and the cards would have been frowned upon! come to think of it, there’s only one of those staff members at the church now. hope that wasn’t my fault!
but it goes long with the idea of pastors having interests outside of church and the bible…
I would add, don’t ask us questions that begin with , “As a pastor, what do you think about…?” It feels more like a test than a question (as if, as a pastor, anything I said wouldn’t be judged in that light anyway).
Thanks Craig! This whole series of posts has been awesome! It points out how much we say, “priesthood of believers” but really lift up pastors and place them on a pedestal (to both judge or revere = neither of which is healthy for anyone)
Keep it up!
Great stuff! All the comments are great too. “Picking up the tab when you see us out” has happened to us before, but usually it has been by strangers or people we know outside the church. The gift card thing is huge. But don’t just give ‘em out at Christmas. That’s like only buying you wife flowers at Valentines. I would add…
…if you ask us out to dinner and intend to pay for it, tell us that up front. I hate trying to figure out if I can adjust the budget, just incase.
…don’t say, “We should go play golf sometime.” Actually say when and where (and if it is your treat or not)
…I don’t want to “talk shop” all the time. Let’s talk about whatever you would normally talk about.
…please don’t cozy up to us, then spring some ministry agenda on us, then when that isn’t going to happen, we never hear from you again.
…my wife and kids need genuine friendships too.
[...] Challenges of Minstry: Friendships Craig Groeschel has a great post on this topic. Thought I’d link to it. It gives great insight into one of the greatest challenges for all ministers; make sure you read the comments from other pastors too. It may seem self-serving to put it on my own blog, but it isn’t…okay, maybe it is, but I thought it necessary. Check it out HERE. [...]
I agree completely! I am not a pastor or a pastor’s wife but…”people in the church” let these leaders breathe…have opinions…have other interests…choose their own friends…and allow them the right to have some down time, vacations… let them go out with their families in peace…let them be real…and have fun when you are with them!
We have got to stop smothering these people with our junk and holy show. Yes! Be thankful God has called them to lead but remind yourself that God is still our soul comforter and bearer of burdens. So don’t be cheesy with these families or heap your garbage into their lives when you see them…just encourage them and allow them some room to be who God made them to be …no strings attached :)
one more thing…
My staff needs the same stuff. Don’t overlook them.
As a pastor’s wife, I can relate with just about every one of these. In addition, it is a little strange for someone to brag about being friends with “the pastor”. I’ve heard that happen on several occasions. We’ve also experienced the saying “I can’t believe you said that with a pastor in the room!” (as if we don’t hear anything but scripture)Gift cards- yes those are awesome:)Thanks for this series, Craig. I want to post everyday saying “that’s exactly how I feel!”.
[...] You can read more here. [...]
I would agree. One thing I’d add (kind of along the gift card thing): When you give us stuff, make sure it is something we’d like, not what you’d like. Also, if you give us a food pounding when we come, give us stuff that is not past the expiration date. We’ve received Hamburger Helper years past the expiration date–that’s hard to do!
Interesting comments from the pastors. so…
to the pastors:
- don’t talk to me only when you want me to volunteer or support your ministry agenda, or give more money, or run an errand for you, or fix something at the building
- don’t come in as a newby and discount people’s previous hard volunteer work because their volunteer work has just been replaced by ‘paid’ staff - work with them, leverage their gifts and your life will become much easier
-try saying hello, how are you and really mean it, and listen instead of preaching at me - we may preach back
-don’t think that your salary is the only charity I support
- don’t expect me to pick uo the tab all the time because I have money - or use my house for every off-site event you dream up
- don’t be so darn paranoid. most people are on a budget, too and don’t get housing allowances or get to write off their mileage either (much less the meals)
- don’t think you are ’special’ because God called you to minister - and if He didn’t, do us all a favor and get out
- don’t assume that just because you say it, it’s from God
-make an effort to becoms friends with people inside and outside the little ministry world. your world is totally and completely foreign to most people, they have no idea what you do daily and really have no way to find out.
- and again, don’t be so paranoid, most people really don’t want much from you
I agree so much on #6. Let’s talk sports or fishing or whatever…
I work in the oilfield right now, I don’t want to talk oilfield on my days off, why would a pastor only want to talk church talk on their time off?
a) very bold.
b) youth pastors like gift cards too.
c) if you want my address to send me one… i’ll take it.
d) number 6 is huge.
e) number 7 is even bigger - a note of encouragement means so much.
good stuff.
I agree with all of them…big time with the notes of appreciation part…saying thank you is a lost art…most pastors need to learn this discipline as well.
Gift cards are next to godliness…especially if they are to Red Lobster!
I’d add: “Don’t expect to become friends with your pastor if you’re negative, bitter, or constantly pointing out problems…you’ve probably already driven off most of your potential friends, and just because I’m your pastor does not mean I enjoy listening to junk…learn to be positive.”
HAHA! I am not doing that bad if you follow this list. I’m good at not doing the negative things, but I could be doing more. I am all about the gift card idea. Its funny when you read these, but honestly it is really helpful. Great post.
Really great post Craig. I would agree with all of them and add - do not try to become friends with the pastor’s wife just so you can get your opinions to the pastor. We’ve been down that road before.
Craig, can we back up a little bit? Your last few blog topics have prioritized “Pastor” as THE central figure in this community we call “church.” Your concerns reveal what could be a much deeper issue: that the “Pastor” has assumed a far too ascendant / dominant role in Christian community.
If it’s come to the point where anybody active in Christian community must (as you say) “protect their spouse” from the “challenges of ministry,” then something is terribly out of balance. If we find that “our ministry” is negatively impacting our home life, then we’re doing something wrong, and the system we’ve built is out of whack.
I question whether the modern “CEO” mega-pastor, and all of its associated stress and imbalances that your recent posts bemoan, is really what Jesus had in mind for his community. Personally, I think your last four posts point to a much deeper, systemic problem in the modern church: that we have elevated the pastor to a rigorous professional activity that was never modeled in the gospels or the 1c church.
Alas, we simply shouldn’t need a discussion on “Becoming Friends” with a pastor. The fact that we have so elevated the “pastor” to this position reveals a profound asymmetry in our understanding and practice of healthy Christian community.
Craig,
I completely agree with numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7… oh wait, that’s all of them. I guess I really love all the ideas. :)
AMEN #4!
Love this series. Makes me want to start a blog to link this to my readers as you suggested. The notes and gift cards are huge - especially Starbucks. Thanks for taking the time to consistently put so much effort into Swerve.
I think this series is so relevant! I love it and agree! I also want to say that we need to watch out to not become cynical toward to church people…. give ‘em a little grace, they may not understand our world. It’s what we signed up for!
Wise Words Craig!
I would add:
Be honest! Speak the truth in love. Don’t tell me something just because you think it is what I want to hear. If my friends can’t be honest with me…
Great stuff- thanks
these are great!
Bingo! I am a pastor’s assistant, and you totally hit the nail on the head! We want to bless our pastors not cause them more stress!
[...] February 22, 2008 · No Comments Craig Groeschel, pastor of Life Church in Oklahoma has some great thoughts about how to be friends with a pastor. Check it out by clicking here. [...]
I think it’s very sad that many congregants place their pastors in a fishbowl condominium. I think that our society is being pervaded by a spirit of entitlement - “you’re my pastor, I pay your salary and therefore you owe me.” Wake up people - they work for God and serve us. We’re called to be disciples (FOLLOWERS and DOERS…imitators of Christ… not watchers and hearers). It might not sound very tolerant or Christian of me but I am like a mother hen when it comes to the pastors and leaders of our home church, maybe even a lioness. Thank you to all the pastors who are brave enough to share openly, honestly and vulnerably. I pray that God surrounds you all with a rubber suit of Godly Armour on which everything negative, or unconstructive, will simply bounce off.
In other words, be mindful.
I am not going to try to beat down my pastors because their time is pulled every which way. What makes me ask is this, “How can I serve the Lord? How can I help shoulder that burden?”
Many people feel like you have to have close personal relationships in order to help that person out. How much more powerful is the love of Christ when we help others who don’t even know us?
What goes for the poor, the homeless, the orphan, the widow, the sick and the prisoner goes just as well for your friend, neighbor, business associate, ex-wife or even your pastor.
[...] Check it out here. [...]
Great stuff! My wife is going to frame this post or anonymously put it on a bulletin board at church. Reading it brought to mind a few summers ago a “generous” church friend offered that we take a few days and stay in a vacation house he had - four wheelers for my teenagers, etc. etc. We were stoked!
This fellow decided to meet us at the place, unlock it and show us around. That seemed fine to us, although it was unnecessary. We asked him to eat dinner with us that first night and had a good visit. He decided to stay in town that first night and return in the morning to work on something. He stayed the entire three days - ate with us at every meal. We didn’t get to let our hair down once. He said he needed some “pastor time” and made time to get to know each of my kids. It was weird and it was horrible.
Lesson - if you are going to let your pastor have your lake home - you go home and let him relax.
[...] it was interesting reading. Check out the original post here - I think he’ll add more on this subject [...]
Thanks for the advice Craig.
[...] to treat your pastor… February 21, 2008 Posted by mandoron in Misc.. trackback Craig has some great suggestions on how to have a friendship with your [...]
Well I guess I am the lone dissenter on this subject. I was tracking with you, Craig, up until now. I’m glad that probably no one in our church reads this blog. Although I have to admit, up to this point I was wishing that some of our people could read the previous three posts. I am the wife of an assistant pastor. Much of the way I receive love is through time spent and through acts of service. It would absolutely bless my socks off if someone invited my husband and I over to their house or offered to baby-sit my kids. It would mean far, far more to me than a gift card or a note – not that I don’t appreciate those too. Being from California and then moving to Wyoming two years ago, I assumed that people would be much more hospitable here — especially compared to California. I was so wrong. Yes, we did have a handful of people invite us over initially with in the first 3 months or so, but beyond that, we have been the primary initiators with very little reciprocation (with the exception of a few people, mainly staff members). Forming friendships has been hard. After about 4 months of feeling awkward and lonely as the newcomer, I was so blessed to have a “pushy” South African friend who not only invited our entire family over for dinner, but also invited me to tea, watched my kids, etc., etc. This was someone who was not a taker at all but was so giving and encouraged me in my walk with the Lord more than anyone I had met in a long time. She ended up moving away. But she was God’s gift to me during a very difficult time. And an inspiration to me to be looking for ways to encourage others. As a former missionary, it has been one of my primary burdens that we don’t practice the one anothers more in the church in this country. I long for an Acts type of church where there was community and the looking out for one anothers needs. I know they definitely shared meals together and I imagined they watched each others kids as well.
Carolyn, Thanks for expressing your perspective. Like I said, I know some people will disagree. I pray God blesses you with more close friends in Wyoming.
[...] In particular I really liked the last two posts, “Becoming Friends with Your Pastor: Part A & Part B.” I don’t agree exactly with all 15 points, but a lot of them are [...]
I’ve enjoyed reading your input on the topic… A few additional thoughts…
First, I think Tony’s post underscores the point. If a pastor talks about his/her life and the challenges that come from their experience, people can’t just listen.
Second, for a congregation member to become friends with a pastor, they have to expand their friendship circle by one family. But for every congregation member to become friends with the pastor, the pastor has to expand their friendship circle the size of the church. Even in a small church, this is impossible.
Third, I think we need to pay more attention to the issues that John L raised in his response. According to statistic cited in Barna’s new book Pagan Christianity, 80% of pastors believe that pastoral ministry effects their families negatively.
Four, we’re not all the same and we change too.
[...] Check out Part 1 here. [...]
Neither my husband nor I are pastors and I didn’t grow up in a church culture, so this whole “cult of personality” thing that surrounds pastors is fascinating to me. Why do many church members expect an inappropriately intimate relationship with their pastor? Jesus had his 3/12/masses, so do you and so does your pastor. I think the bottom line is motivation. Why are you seeking to befriend the pastor - for your benefit or his? If your attempts at friendship are not met with the results you desire and you get offended, that may be a key to your motivation. Instead of trying to love your pastor the way you want to love him, how about loving him the way he and his family need it? (Hmmm, sounds like a book I read once about love languages!) Thanks for a list that shows us how to love our pastors in a way that truly blesses them.
hmmm.
I hope that this somehow is helpful…not sure how…but here it goes…
Personally, I would not want to be friends with anyone that had a list that long just to qualify me to be considered one of his amigos. I am judged enough in life, in general, so I try not to bother with it from my “friends”.
Perhaps Craig should pen an article on “How to Make Real Friends as a Pastor”. Or perhaps a short story on “How to Get off Your Pedestal Long Enough to Act Ethically.”
It seems to me like most pastors have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that compatibility between them and every single member of the congregation is unrealistic. Furthermore… leading on members of your church to believe that there is a chance for them to befriend you while you mock them to your family and staff might not be the best tactic in godliness. I understand that it may be difficult to say “no” to a volunteer in the kids’ room or tell one of your ushers that you would rather not hang out with him this Friday night. I also understand that you would rather not piss off any of the members that “get” the whole “tithing thing.” I just figured that a person that is so “in tune” that he is able to write a criteria to get on the waiting list to be his buddy (and then blog about it), might find it more fulfilling to study up on honesty with others and ethical behavior. He needs to find out how to fill his church seats without being a used car salesman and telling everyone what they want to hear from their good buddy Craig.
Maybe it is just a terrible misunderstanding on my part or a play on words on his. After all, I know a pastor that I consider to be a friend, and I also know a Pastor that simply makes considerations to befriend me. I love one of them effortlessly (and I try not to bug him too much). The other I struggle to love because I don’t respect him entirely (and I don’t bother bugging him at all)
Here is the deal.
I have had a bunch of teachers and mentors in my life. Most of which were extremely impactful and have help shaped the person that I am today. No of which have I ever mistook as a friend. They did not necessarily LOVE me. They were simply doing their job; and they did it well. You don’t have to be a friend to be helpful. Perhaps Craig should rethink the way that he “sells” to his congregation. He’s intentions is that of a teacher, but his impact is that of a friend. One has nothing to do with the other.
No one said that being a teacher to “many” meant that you needed to be a friend to “all”.
My advice would be to for him to spend less time thinking about what annoys him about people, and more time understanding why so many are misinterpreting his message, that he feels the need to fire a shot across his pulpit to insure that no one would mistakenly shake his hand and offer him kindness as they know it. He needs to stop selling himself as everyone’s buddy when his microphone is cued and just teach people how to seek out a friend in Jesus. Who, by the way, has a much shorter list of qualifications for his friends.
That is a sad article, but there is a happy ending for Craig. He can keep writing about the way he selects his friends to the point that everyone that reads it feels like they are not good enough to live up to his expectations. Then he will get what he is asking for…
…lot’s of time alone to spend with those few that are lucky enough to make the cut. Hopefully the rest will stick around so that he can continue to pay the bills.
And across the room everyone said…..
(You don’t need to keep this posted, I’ll understand)
Our Pastor is the best - we say hello every Sunday, sometimes we get to shake his hand. We know he has alot of “friends” to minister to every week at the 3 services. Thank you for the suggestions posted! I do believe we shall get our Pastor’s family a gift card! Nice to show appreciation without being in his face, :-)
My perspective on this… http://www.karnardkreations.com/bernardshuford/nfblog/2008/02/25/pastors-and-friendship/
Wow I am not a pastor but my pastor is my third best friend after me Father and my wife. Man I have really messed up each of these points! Sorry Phil! Love ya man!
Great Post Craig! I deal with this so much. it is refreshing to hear that I am not the only one that struggles with this. Thanks for your transparency…
Great Post Craig! I deal with this so much. it is refreshing to hear that I am not the only one that struggles with this. Thanks for your transparency…