Comments on: Signs of Immaturity 4 (of 4) http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/ a leadership, technology, and innovation blog for pastors and church leaders Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:53:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Alan Nelson http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-110803 Alan Nelson Sun, 10 Feb 2008 05:20:19 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-110803 Craig, love your honesty and sharing. Your blog is now on the www.rev.org site. Hope you guys keep rocking. The article and interview with Bobby comes out this week in the latest Rev! Alan Nelson, author of Me To We Craig, love your honesty and sharing. Your blog is now on the http://www.rev.org site. Hope you guys keep rocking. The article and interview with Bobby comes out this week in the latest Rev!

Alan Nelson, author of Me To We

]]> By: Greg Atkinson http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-110283 Greg Atkinson Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:01:04 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-110283 You nailed it - it’s all about the Kingdom. Competition between churches is outrageous. Every where I’ve served, I’ve gotten to know staff at local churches. I treasure those friendships. You nailed it - it’s all about the Kingdom. Competition between churches is outrageous. Every where I’ve served, I’ve gotten to know staff at local churches. I treasure those friendships.

]]> By: Greg Atkinson http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-110279 Greg Atkinson Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:00:07 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-110279 You nailed it - it's all about the Kingdom. Competition between churches is outrageous. Every where I've served, I've gotten to know staff at local churches. I treasure those friendships. You nailed it - it’s all about the Kingdom. Competition between churches is outrageous. Every where I’ve served, I’ve gotten to know staff at local churches. I treasure those friendships.

]]> By: Phil Thompson http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-110117 Phil Thompson Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:08:37 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-110117 I felt the same way about those things but than i moved to a small town in Kansas. I realized the need to work together for the sake our our community. I also have made some great relationships too thru our ministerial association. I felt the same way about those things but than i moved to a small town in Kansas. I realized the need to work together for the sake our our community. I also have made some great relationships too thru our ministerial association.

]]> By: Jeremy http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109944 Jeremy Fri, 08 Feb 2008 04:34:12 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109944 Craig, you are right on. In my first ministry positions I was discouraged by my pastor to develop any relationships with people. Unfortunately, it caused me to be defensive, and despise anyone who was having success when I wasn't. I had to learn the hard way that people in ministry are on the same team we are. I was beating up my own teammates! Great post, man. Thanks, as always for your insight. Craig, you are right on. In my first ministry positions I was discouraged by my pastor to develop any relationships with people. Unfortunately, it caused me to be defensive, and despise anyone who was having success when I wasn’t.

I had to learn the hard way that people in ministry are on the same team we are. I was beating up my own teammates!

Great post, man. Thanks, as always for your insight.

]]> By: John Lambert http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109811 John Lambert Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:57:40 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109811 Natalie, you may be right about this being harder for men. I find that alot of times we don't connect with people unless we feel that they have something to teach us or we feel they are stronger in a certain area than we are. I guess it's that dang ole pride Craig mentioned. Natalie, you may be right about this being harder for men. I find that alot of times we don’t connect with people unless we feel that they have something to teach us or we feel they are stronger in a certain area than we are. I guess it’s that dang ole pride Craig mentioned.

]]> By: Anna http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109793 Anna Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:04:51 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109793 This has been a huge area of growth for me in the last few months... I've learned that it's okay, even necessary to allow people "in" it's completely changed the way my volunteers and I enteract, which in turn has completely changed our ministry... This has been a huge area of growth for me in the last few months… I’ve learned that it’s okay, even necessary to allow people “in” it’s completely changed the way my volunteers and I enteract, which in turn has completely changed our ministry…

]]> By: Terrace Crawford http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109772 Terrace Crawford Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:26:51 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109772 I am ALL about building kingdom relationships. Networking is a love of mine. I have the privledge of leading a youth pastors network but also am involved in another network. I also work hard to get youth pastors and pastors in our area to partner together -- not only fellowshipping together but doing events together also. I think isolation is a tool of the devil. I've been deeply encouraged to see the body of Christ come together on many levels. I pray our momentum continues. I am ALL about building kingdom relationships. Networking is a love of mine. I have the privledge of leading a youth pastors network but also am involved in another network. I also work hard to get youth pastors and pastors in our area to partner together — not only fellowshipping together but doing events together also. I think isolation is a tool of the devil. I’ve been deeply encouraged to see the body of Christ come together on many levels. I pray our momentum continues.

]]> By: david sherwood http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109770 david sherwood Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:23:42 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109770 I ran a pandenominational music club for a few years and it really helped me to see and understand the benefit of networking. As a person who merged churches cross denominationally i also now believe that denominational dialogue on the highest levels could help considerably to help this process. it seems to me that we all are becoming pastors of the Kingdom far more than bishops on one side or the other of a chessboard. Thus, decisions that I make now are not always good for me or my church but maybe be healthy for the kingdom and community. The beachhead of making decisions like this looks a little like Normandy [bodies everywhere] but every paradigm shift of being a revolutionary carries that level of sacrifice inside it. I am encouraged that a splintered Christendom is giving way to a unified Church on a lot of levels and in a lot of ways. My only tough decisions are where to cross borders, and at what places it is a waste of time and where it is actually effective. I ran a pandenominational music club for a few years and it really helped me to see and understand the benefit of networking. As a person who merged churches cross denominationally i also now believe that denominational dialogue on the highest levels could help considerably to help this process.

it seems to me that we all are becoming pastors of the Kingdom far more than bishops on one side or the other of a chessboard. Thus, decisions that I make now are not always good for me or my church but maybe be healthy for the kingdom and community. The beachhead of making decisions like this looks a little like Normandy [bodies everywhere] but every paradigm shift of being a revolutionary carries that level of sacrifice inside it.

I am encouraged that a splintered Christendom is giving way to a unified Church on a lot of levels and in a lot of ways.

My only tough decisions are where to cross borders, and at what places it is a waste of time and where it is actually effective.

]]> By: Natalie Witcher http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109761 Natalie Witcher Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:50:58 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109761 Ok, I'm a chick (der) and I'm just wondering if it's more difficult for men in this area than women? My amazing hubby has close friends, but not loads of them. Most of them are in ministry and the friendships were fashioned years ago. It's taken time for him to develop closer ones sinced we've moved. He's got them now and they are great. I, on the other hand, can gather a herd of friends in a matter of weeks. So, do y'all think it's more immaturity in some cases, or is it a guy thing? Just askin' becuase it's been so different for me and JT in this area. (just to clarify, I don't think JT is immature) :) Ok, I’m a chick (der) and I’m just wondering if it’s more difficult for men in this area than women? My amazing hubby has close friends, but not loads of them. Most of them are in ministry and the friendships were fashioned years ago. It’s taken time for him to develop closer ones sinced we’ve moved. He’s got them now and they are great. I, on the other hand, can gather a herd of friends in a matter of weeks. So, do y’all think it’s more immaturity in some cases, or is it a guy thing? Just askin’ becuase it’s been so different for me and JT in this area.

(just to clarify, I don’t think JT is immature) :)

]]> By: Avery http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109752 Avery Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:32:16 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109752 I am kind of wierd... I have friends from every different denom you can think of... I hate denominations... (not the fact that we have them, but that they divide us)... or silly things like race, ethnicity, or gender... One benefit of hanging out with every denom is no one can "label you"... Some call me a radical fundamentalist, but then they see my "liberal" Christian friends, and are shocked... Others call me a crazy charismatic, but then they see my so called "radical fundamentalist" friends, and they are shocked... I personally don't see people like that... they either love Jesus and are growing in him daily, or they don't... That's the dividing line for me...where people are on that journey is different, and each memebr of Christ's body is at a different place... but we are still one, and still need each other... I think that is how we should view everything... the rest of it is just a human thing that divides us...or unites us for the wrong reasons... I don't like labels. I don't think we could label Jesus either... If I am going to be known as a Christ follower... then I want to be known as someone who is sold out to Jesus more than anything else... the rest of the stuff amounts to a hill of beans for me... I am kind of wierd…

I have friends from every different denom you can think of…

I hate denominations… (not the fact that we have them, but that they divide us)… or silly things like race, ethnicity, or gender…

One benefit of hanging out with every denom is no one can “label you”…

Some call me a radical fundamentalist, but then they see my “liberal” Christian friends, and are shocked…

Others call me a crazy charismatic, but then they see my so called “radical fundamentalist” friends, and they are shocked…

I personally don’t see people like that… they either love Jesus and are growing in him daily, or they don’t… That’s the dividing line for me…where people are on that journey is different, and each memebr of Christ’s body is at a different place… but we are still one, and still need each other…

I think that is how we should view everything… the rest of it is just a human thing that divides us…or unites us for the wrong reasons…

I don’t like labels. I don’t think we could label Jesus either…

If I am going to be known as a Christ follower… then I want to be known as someone who is sold out to Jesus more than anything else… the rest of the stuff amounts to a hill of beans for me…

]]> By: Chilly... http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109745 Chilly... Thu, 07 Feb 2008 19:06:13 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109745 Relationships are key at various levels of life & ministry. I think local pastor gatherings can be cool, informative, at times boring, but often encouraging. But we also need relationships that sharpen us - you may not find that in every local setting. I sought out for that and found 3 guys (in three other states) - we get together 4 times per year to pray, laugh, eat, share, catch a movie, pray some more, laugh a lot more, etc. It's awesome and takes accountability to a cool new level. Iron cannot sharpen another substance (like wood) - so, it's essential we find people of like substance that sharpen us and are sharpened by us. Otherwise it can dull us, or destroy us rather than sharpen us. Relationships are key at various levels of life & ministry. I think local pastor gatherings can be cool, informative, at times boring, but often encouraging.

But we also need relationships that sharpen us - you may not find that in every local setting. I sought out for that and found 3 guys (in three other states) - we get together 4 times per year to pray, laugh, eat, share, catch a movie, pray some more, laugh a lot more, etc. It’s awesome and takes accountability to a cool new level.

Iron cannot sharpen another substance (like wood) - so, it’s essential we find people of like substance that sharpen us and are sharpened by us. Otherwise it can dull us, or destroy us rather than sharpen us.

]]> By: Charlie Wallace http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109714 Charlie Wallace Thu, 07 Feb 2008 17:57:55 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109714 I know that the day is still relatively young, but I think it is interesting at the relatively few comments posted on this subject when compared with those of previous days. I think this a real problem and Craig has done a great job of bringing this to attention. I think a lot of times we feel that we don't have time for friends and we tend to think we know it all and don't want to have to change the direction of our leadership. I think most strong leaders have a utopian vision of where their leadership (alone) is going to take them. I know that the day is still relatively young, but I think it is interesting at the relatively few comments posted on this subject when compared with those of previous days.

I think this a real problem and Craig has done a great job of bringing this to attention. I think a lot of times we feel that we don’t have time for friends and we tend to think we know it all and don’t want to have to change the direction of our leadership. I think most strong leaders have a utopian vision of where their leadership (alone) is going to take them.

]]> By: Brad Ruggles http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109688 Brad Ruggles Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:41:18 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109688 Great post...I think it is so important to go out of your way to develop relationships, especially with other area pastors. Not only can you learn so much from what others are doing, you are demonstrating Christ's love in your community by loving each other rather than fighting. Jesus prayed that we would be one even as He and the Father were one. When we reach out to each other and cultivate those relationships we are living out what Jesus prayed for. Plus, hanging out with other pastors and leaders is just FUN! How shallow would you be if you only saw the same people all the time? <B>Brad Ruggles</B> www.bradruggles.com Great post…I think it is so important to go out of your way to develop relationships, especially with other area pastors. Not only can you learn so much from what others are doing, you are demonstrating Christ’s love in your community by loving each other rather than fighting.

Jesus prayed that we would be one even as He and the Father were one. When we reach out to each other and cultivate those relationships we are living out what Jesus prayed for.

Plus, hanging out with other pastors and leaders is just FUN! How shallow would you be if you only saw the same people all the time?

Brad Ruggles
http://www.bradruggles.com

]]> By: Jon French http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109677 Jon French Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:11:02 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109677 This is a little hard for me as well. I always hate the awkward "so how many people are you running" and questions of sorts. But I have kept at it and slowly have made some vital friendships. It just takes time to build those friendships and to gain loyalty. But those relationships are a must have. Also, the blogging world has helped me to begin to make some friendships. This is a little hard for me as well. I always hate the awkward “so how many people are you running” and questions of sorts. But I have kept at it and slowly have made some vital friendships. It just takes time to build those friendships and to gain loyalty. But those relationships are a must have.

Also, the blogging world has helped me to begin to make some friendships.

]]> By: Craig Groeschel http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109675 Craig Groeschel Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:10:25 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109675 John, It may be a no-brainer, but still necessary. John L., That is very cool. Ryan, I like the book idea! Jason, Glad to hear you are still working at it. John, It may be a no-brainer, but still necessary.

John L., That is very cool.

Ryan, I like the book idea!

Jason, Glad to hear you are still working at it.

]]> By: Jason Curlee http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109674 Jason Curlee Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:01:29 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109674 This is one I have probably worked the hardest to not have happen. When I was in youth ministry I always established a network of other youth pastors in the area I was in, even if they weren't from the same denomination. To reach our cities it really does take more than one church. I know that as pastors sometimes we want to think that ours is the best and that everyone should be in it. Only thing is that we don't relate to every single segment. Now that we are launching our own church I have been trying to develop a network of pastors who are doing the same thing across the country. Networking is so vital and as a pastor you should pursue it. This is one I have probably worked the hardest to not have happen. When I was in youth ministry I always established a network of other youth pastors in the area I was in, even if they weren’t from the same denomination. To reach our cities it really does take more than one church. I know that as pastors sometimes we want to think that ours is the best and that everyone should be in it. Only thing is that we don’t relate to every single segment.

Now that we are launching our own church I have been trying to develop a network of pastors who are doing the same thing across the country.

Networking is so vital and as a pastor you should pursue it.

]]> By: Larry http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109664 Larry Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:41:51 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109664 I agree...as ministry leaders we don't do very well when it comes to connecting with one another. I like Ryan's idea about getting together for a book study! I'm going to give it a try. I agree…as ministry leaders we don’t do very well when it comes to connecting with one another. I like Ryan’s idea about getting together for a book study! I’m going to give it a try.

]]> By: Ryan Day http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109660 Ryan Day Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:38:15 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109660 Craig, I hear you! Our church is the 'black sheep' of our denomination - you know the story, too progressive, too big, too loud, etc. However, I sought out like-minded people in and out of our denomination to network with. To be honest, they are my greatest source of support and advice! Seriously, I will not unroll a big church-wide idea without consulting my friends. The give and take is so life-giving and adds a ton of perspective that I would have missed! On another note...I recently assembled a small group of men for a study on "Confessions of a Pastor". We meet @ 7 am every Thursday (I'm NOT a morning person :( ) and the synergy and transparency is incredible! I've been thru the book a couple of time now and it moves me EVERY time! Thanks for your obedience! As a multi-site church, thanks for your model and investment! Craig,
I hear you! Our church is the ‘black sheep’ of our denomination - you know the story, too progressive, too big, too loud, etc. However, I sought out like-minded people in and out of our denomination to network with. To be honest, they are my greatest source of support and advice! Seriously, I will not unroll a big church-wide idea without consulting my friends. The give and take is so life-giving and adds a ton of perspective that I would have missed!

On another note…I recently assembled a small group of men for a study on “Confessions of a Pastor”. We meet @ 7 am every Thursday (I’m NOT a morning person :( ) and the synergy and transparency is incredible! I’ve been thru the book a couple of time now and it moves me EVERY time! Thanks for your obedience!

As a multi-site church, thanks for your model and investment!

]]> By: John Lambert http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/comment-page-1/#comment-109658 John Lambert Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:33:15 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2008/02/07/signs-of-immaturity-4-of-4/#comment-109658 I enjoy getting to know other people who are serving God in a variety of different ways. Recently I have been actively trying to connect with people who are outside of my circle who have a like cross cultural heart. I am learning from their experiences and ways. Our church has done a few "Unite" events where we gather pastors and churches throughout our city for a night of worship and prayer each quarter or so. Unfortunately not everyone is up for it, but for those who come, it's great to just be together as the Body of Christ. The key, I think, is to come without an agenda and just go after God together for our city. I enjoy getting to know other people who are serving God in a variety of different ways. Recently I have been actively trying to connect with people who are outside of my circle who have a like cross cultural heart. I am learning from their experiences and ways. Our church has done a few “Unite” events where we gather pastors and churches throughout our city for a night of worship and prayer each quarter or so. Unfortunately not everyone is up for it, but for those who come, it’s great to just be together as the Body of Christ. The key, I think, is to come without an agenda and just go after God together for our city.

]]>