Comments on: Guest Blog - Scott Williams

By: Big Is The New Small » Friday Drive-by (11)

Big Is The New Small » Friday Drive-by (11) — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 16:13:40 +0000

[...] Unstereotypical Get Rid of Church Members It’s a Bloggy Blog World [...]

By: This Week In Blogs - Merry Christmas To All! « Sets ‘n’ Service

This Week In Blogs - Merry Christmas To All! « Sets ‘n’ Service — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:26:18 +0000

[...] Steve Williams on “Unstereotypical.” [...]

By: Big Is The New Small » Friday Drive-by (10)

Big Is The New Small » Friday Drive-by (10) — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:44:25 +0000

[...] Read and comment on my post on Swerve entitled “Unstereotypical.” [...]

By: Patrick Sievert

Patrick Sievert — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:20:14 +0000

My church? My church is lifechurch, so…

But if you want to talk about unstereotypical, check out what Oak Leaf Church in Cartersville, GA did last weekend:

http://yckg.wordpress.com/2007/12/16/sunday-recap-20/

By: aaron

aaron — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:22:12 +0000

great post Scott.

By: Scott Williams

Scott Williams — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:58:02 +0000

Jimmy- It might just be be, but you are one of my favorite commenters. :-) You and your comments are generally unstereotypical. Thanks for being you!

By: riddle

riddle — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:33:59 +0000

jimmy,
now that is an interesting statement.

“God isn’t the opposite of anything”

I’m going to chew on that for a while.

By: jimmy paravane

jimmy paravane — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:47:41 +0000

Avery, tsk tsk. Something is going to have to be done about you. Pointing out that Jesus wasn’t charismatic, was ugly, and an outcast. You are blowing the whole plan. Please, everyone just ignore this and go back to watching reality TV and dreaming about going on Survivor, BigBrother, American Idol, or if yer really really pretty and popular, America’s Next Top Model. Something better happen so they can start churning out those reality TV shows faster than ever! (grin)

Oh good, the ole “let’s get back to the church of Acts cause them first christians were cooler/more powerful than us” variation on the theme. They should get stuck on that formula for awhile. Whew! Close one. (grin)

If stereotypical means lacking spontaneity or originality or individuality, by all means please stay away from unstereotypical. Because it doesn’t mean the opposite. God isn’t the opposite of anything. Figure the rest out for yersleves. (grin)

By: Scott Williams

Scott Williams — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:51:31 +0000

Dusty- you stated: “I don’t think the issue is that we should or should not be stereotypically like successful churches” I never mentioned anything about “success or successful churches.” The fact that a church or pastor is “stereotypical,” doesn’t necessarily correlate to “success.” I agree that we need all types of churches, pastors, ministries….to reach people for Christ. Find your Chazown and roll w/ it; someone else’s Chazown might not be yours.

By: Avery

Avery — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:14:08 +0000

its the genuine contact with believers, those who model Christ’s love, meeting people out in the world, not in church, who will be able to reach them.
The question would be.. who has God placed around you that He wants you to reach out to? How can you connect with that person?

Now thats radical… I think that the first step in being unstereotypical means our evangelism is connecting in our personal lives with people, and that means sharing the message before they get to the gathering…that means people excited about sharing the gospel personally, and leading people to connect with God before they ever get to church…

According to a gallup poll statistically 68% of people leave any institution, business, or church (including megachurches) because they percieve themselves as unwanted… whether its true or not, that’s the reality of their perception…

If the business of any institution is making people feel wanted and 68 % don’t feel wanted , business has to change… and that means going out and making people feel wanted and connecting with God… instead of inviting them in where statistically they generally don’t feel wanted…even if it has a built in Starbucks…

I agree Dusty… and signs on a street corner won’t do it… neither will inviting people to a place where they feel unwanted… where do we go from here…?

Didn’t mean to hijack this thread… I’ll let the professionals shed some light on it…and leave it at that…

By: Dusty V.

Dusty V. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:35:14 +0000

I don’t know the answer to that?
Each person is different and will take a different approach.
How does God reach the 20something who listens to hardcore metal, hangs at bars, and finds no relevance in churches, even comtemporary seeker sensitive churches?
What kind of approach will reach the 75year old widow who spent most of her life in church and walked away from God after the death of her spouse?
Every style of church has its place and sphere of influence, and will do no better than another to reach those who don’t know Christ. The stereotypes won’t reach these people, or any other nonbeliever… its the genuine contact with believers, those who model Christ’s love, meeting people out in the world, not in church, who will be able to reach them.
The question would be.. who has God placed around you that He wants you to reach out to? How can you connect with that person?

By: Avery

Avery — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:10:44 +0000

Dusty… that brings up a great question…

What do people need from us in order to “meet Christ”!

By: Dusty V.

Dusty V. — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:58:35 +0000

I don’t think the issue is that we should or should not be stereotypically like successful churches, the only issue is that we need to be like Christ, even stereotypically like Christ. And I don’t mean the stereotypical “Jesus freak” holding signs at busy intersections, but the Christ of the first 4 books of the NT. Paul said that he had “become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some”… let’s not focus on being unstereotypical, but becoming what people need from us in order to meet Christ.

By: Scott Williams

Scott Williams — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:23:25 +0000

Avery- Wow bro. I feel your passion! “I think the only real way to be like Jesus, who was the Lord of Diversity, Pluralism, and Unity based in Truth, is to be in Him…” I think I might use some of your comment in a future blog post.:-)

By: Avery

Avery — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:39:00 +0000

One final thought…

You can’t put God in a box…

But you shouldn’t take him out of the one He put Himself in so we could understand Him…

That’s not small minded.. thats huge minded… small minded people won’t get the simplicity of God’s genious… they can’t think that big… How can you limit God even if He packaged Himself for our understanding…?

That’s not a little box or a little God, that’s a Huge idea in a little box that few really know the potential of because they are too small minded…

By: Avery

Avery — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:34:58 +0000

Speaking of Jesus, the prophet Isaiah seeing into the future says…

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

I must have attended at least 100 churches across the US, and have met leaders and representatives from many more than that…

Things that are in:

Horned rim glasses, and bleach blond hair…

Casual dress, in stylish trends fashions and buildings…

Big audio and video systems…

Catchy, and witty media presentations in the middle of sermons…

Personal comfort, relativism, subjectivism, and worldliness…

Things that are out:
Serious study of God’s word and the teaching to take it seriously and obey it daily…

Serious commitment to sharing the gospel personally with others and training them to… (not including inviting people to church, thats not the gospel)

Absolutes that are to be conformed to rather than debated, or acknowledged but not enforced…

Personal costs and promised sufferings for those who live godly in Christ Jesus…

I think the new trend is the opposite of what the prophet Isaiah said about Jesus…

I think the new trends are all about the appearance of diversity, the appearance of wisdom, and the appearance of godliness but void of Jesus…

Jesus as Isaiah declared was more about God, and less about beauty and majesty of worldly kingdoms, churches, and trends, and temmporary measures of success…

I think the only real way to be like Jesus, who was the Lord of Diversity, Pluralism, and Unity based in Truth, is to be in Him…

In Christ there is no Hebrew, Greek, Male, Female, Black, White etc…etc…

In Christ there is only One Lord, One Way, and One Truth…

Its His way… more about God and less about us… More about lving Godly.. even then it is about being popular, or even reaching others…

The only way to really be different is to be like Jesus…

His short 33 years on earth changed the face of the globe…
but His personal ministry was unattractive, unpopular, and if you consider that only twelve really followed Him for his earthly ministry, then a failure in most people’s measurements…and even made most people angry… enough even to crucify Him…

Scott I think things are changing though… maybe…

So when you ask:
Is it just me, or was Jesus very unstereotypical? (BTW, I just made up that word.)

What about you? How has your church become stereotypical? How can we, the Church, become unstereotypical?

I think Jesus was very unsteretypical… in fact I know He was… that is why He made such in impact…

I think the church will inevitably become more unsteretypical as it really, and truly follows after Christ, and sees Him in truth and in reality… and at the same time those who are just playing church, and treating treating it like a business or pretending to follow “The Way”, and treating it like a hobby or like a suggestion… will follow suit and become either unsteroetypically radical followers after God’s heart like Jesus was no matter what the cost, or they will be just like everyone else and become stereotypically trendy, seeking appearances, temporary successes, and overall spiritually superficial…at the same time calling things that are fixed, absolute, and true, arrogant, negative, and outdated…

Thats what the bible teaches anyway…

By: Scott Williams

Scott Williams — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 00:46:14 +0000

Riddle- Thanks again for the comments and feedback!
Matt- Fear and Struggles….. Ouch! That sounds like a common theme for many..
Justin- I don’t think that we limit ourselves for the sake of being unstereotypical. I am simply saying that God has called us to more than the box that “We” put ourselves in. Not only are we many times in the box, but we see other people, churches and pastors wrapping paper and want the same thing. Seek God and set the trend!
Travis- Actually quite the contrary: “definitely not all things to all people” but rather seeking who God has called you to be and that may not always the current, trendy, sexy, happening thing. God may have plans for you to define those things and not follow them.
Scott- Thanks!
Anna- Yes Maam, you are awesome and definitely unstereotypical!

By: Anna

Anna — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 23:57:51 +0000

Great job Scott! You’re amazing! Thanks for teaching me it’s okay to be unstereotypical!

By: Scott Magdalein

Scott Magdalein — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:03:13 +0000

I meant to say that I’m NOW a loyal subscriber. Sorry for the disrespectful typo.

By: Scott Magdalein

Scott Magdalein — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:01:38 +0000

Mr. Williams,
Thanks for the link. I’m not a loyal subscriber. I lead worship for The Fellowship @ Celebration Baptist Church. Our name is a monumental example of our church trying to move from one stereotype [as described in my earlier post] to another [like the stereotypical church planter]. Our site is http://www.cbcjax.org.
The good news agout all this is that we’re about to go through a revisioning process over the next 6-8 months which will bring about a new name [hopefully shorter] and a new website [boy! we need one!].