Comments on: Future of the Church 4 (of 5) http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/ a leadership, technology, and innovation blog for pastors and church leaders Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:33:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Clayton Bell | Online » Blog Archive » I started the day with Chick-Fil-A… http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-130211 Clayton Bell | Online » Blog Archive » I started the day with Chick-Fil-A… Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:32:00 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-130211 [...] Craig Groeschel has been posting some thoughts on the future of the church this week over on the Swerve blog, and here’s my favorite from the five… [...] [...] Craig Groeschel has been posting some thoughts on the future of the church this week over on the Swerve blog, and here’s my favorite from the five… [...]

]]> By: Loy http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-54680 Loy Sun, 28 Oct 2007 22:14:36 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-54680 Unfortunately this particular article is looking in the wrong direction. The statement "The consumer-Christian will not survive in the next ten years" is an incorrect one. Why? Because fewer and fewer "Christian" churches boldly proclaim the Word of God accurately, openly, and honestly. As the Word of God loses its prime place in the American church, the consumeristic Christian (if such a person really exists) will find many new places to attend. The Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to cause unbelievers and believers alike to understand their situation. Without the Word of God, church is just another social gathering. The real question is, "Will there be a Bible teaching Church in the United States ten years from now?" Although it is true that the church doesn't exist just for me ("We know that we have passed from death into life, because we love our brothers" (1Jn 3:14)), it also doesn't exist just for the world, either ("You are the light of the world" (Mt. 5:14)). The church is the bride of Christ. It primarily exists for Jesus and for His glory. "Husbands love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present to Himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." (Eph 5:25-27) Unfortunately this particular article is looking in the wrong direction. The statement “The consumer-Christian will not survive in the next ten years” is an incorrect one. Why? Because fewer and fewer “Christian” churches boldly proclaim the Word of God accurately, openly, and honestly. As the Word of God loses its prime place in the American church, the consumeristic Christian (if such a person really exists) will find many new places to attend. The Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to cause unbelievers and believers alike to understand their situation. Without the Word of God, church is just another social gathering.

The real question is, “Will there be a Bible teaching Church in the United States ten years from now?”

Although it is true that the church doesn’t exist just for me (”We know that we have passed from death into life, because we love our brothers” (1Jn 3:14)), it also doesn’t exist just for the world, either (”You are the light of the world” (Mt. 5:14)). The church is the bride of Christ. It primarily exists for Jesus and for His glory.

“Husbands love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present to Himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.” (Eph 5:25-27)

]]> By: Tony http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-53413 Tony Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:05:02 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-53413 It's been awhile since I visted the blog here and I read through Craig's view of technology then went right into this one on what will make us a better church and it's interesting to say the least what comes to mind by his sharing his mind. It reminds me of a favorite talk show who's host reminds his listeners all the time that he is reaffirming what we already believe, that's what makes his show so successfull and we keep coming back. Of all the things that attracted me to lifechurch this is at the top of the list. For me it wasn't shopping in the sense of finding what meets my needs, it's finding like-minded followers of Christ who saw the same Jesus I saw. It's not gimmicks, or style, but people willing to try anything to reach that next lost soul; technology being one of those areas far too many scoff at. I have some of those connections Craig spoke of that are necessary for the church to reach out to the world, but I haven't personally met any of them yet in the flesh. I meet with them regularly each week, we share our lives, do for each other, try to meet needs we all experience, we do missions together, and we can't wait to come back together again, and it's all done using technology. These relationships are as dear to me as any I have experienced face to face. In fact, I've been around awhile in church circles and I can tell you too often it's harder to get the kind of relationships built in our present culture that Craig speaks of than I've experienced here using technology. We seem to have little patience with each other face to face, we judge too qickly, and forgiveness is a long time coming. Satan attacks our relationships with little things to divide us and we start looking for ways out, instead of bearing with one another, forgiving each other, being patient with each other, forebearing one another, being kind to each other, no gossipping or grumbling about each other, etc. This is what I have witnessed and experienced all too often in our country church culture way too often, and I too believe as Craig stated that it will take a real awakening for things to change, probably the kind of wakening that won't be pleasant, but in the end will make the church and our relationships stronger and more real. I believe we need to prepare ourselves for the time is at hand. I feel blessed to know those who believe the same, for these will be the ones we can look to for help when the time comes. We may find it hard to believe now, but it will be a blessing. Thanks for the reminder Craig. It’s been awhile since I visted the blog here and I read through Craig’s view of technology then went right into this one on what will make us a better church and it’s interesting to say the least what comes to mind by his sharing his mind. It reminds me of a favorite talk show who’s host reminds his listeners all the time that he is reaffirming what we already believe, that’s what makes his show so successfull and we keep coming back. Of all the things that attracted me to lifechurch this is at the top of the list. For me it wasn’t shopping in the sense of finding what meets my needs, it’s finding like-minded followers of Christ who saw the same Jesus I saw. It’s not gimmicks, or style, but people willing to try anything to reach that next lost soul; technology being one of those areas far too many scoff at. I have some of those connections Craig spoke of that are necessary for the church to reach out to the world, but I haven’t personally met any of them yet in the flesh. I meet with them regularly each week, we share our lives, do for each other, try to meet needs we all experience, we do missions together, and we can’t wait to come back together again, and it’s all done using technology. These relationships are as dear to me as any I have experienced face to face.
In fact, I’ve been around awhile in church circles and I can tell you too often it’s harder to get the kind of relationships built in our present culture that Craig speaks of than I’ve experienced here using technology. We seem to have little patience with each other face to face, we judge too qickly, and forgiveness is a long time coming. Satan attacks our relationships with little things to divide us and we start looking for ways out, instead of bearing with one another, forgiving each other, being patient with each other, forebearing one another, being kind to each other, no gossipping or grumbling about each other, etc. This is what I have witnessed and experienced all too often in our country church culture way too often, and I too believe as Craig stated that it will take a real awakening for things to change, probably the kind of wakening that won’t be pleasant, but in the end will make the church and our relationships stronger and more real. I believe we need to prepare ourselves for the time is at hand. I feel blessed to know those who believe the same, for these will be the ones we can look to for help when the time comes. We may find it hard to believe now, but it will be a blessing. Thanks for the reminder Craig.

]]> By: Kerri Weems http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-52140 Kerri Weems Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:34:02 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-52140 Ahhh --- Aaron. sorry I missed your intent. I think we are very in agrrement. Ahhh — Aaron. sorry I missed your intent. I think we are very in agrrement.

]]> By: jimmy paravane http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51860 jimmy paravane Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:57:20 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51860 aaron - To quote Emily Litella, "Oh, that's very different. Never mind." (grin) aaron - To quote Emily Litella, “Oh, that’s very different. Never mind.” (grin)

]]> By: Laugh. Love. Learn. :: Trading Comfort :: October :: 2007 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51693 Laugh. Love. Learn. :: Trading Comfort :: October :: 2007 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 05:05:56 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51693 [...] In a recent post, Craig Groeschel says he believes the future of the Church will be comprised of believers who: - Are sick of living in material comfort while millions starve to death. - Make money to give more than they consume. - Believe in the power of prayer and fasting. - Are willing to suffer for the cause of Christ. - Will be engaged in missions both locally and internationally. - See it as their role to lead people to Christ. - See it as their role to help people in need. [...] [...] In a recent post, Craig Groeschel says he believes the future of the Church will be comprised of believers who: - Are sick of living in material comfort while millions starve to death. - Make money to give more than they consume. - Believe in the power of prayer and fasting. - Are willing to suffer for the cause of Christ. - Will be engaged in missions both locally and internationally. - See it as their role to lead people to Christ. - See it as their role to help people in need. [...]

]]> By: aaron http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51678 aaron Fri, 19 Oct 2007 03:53:26 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51678 Jimmy, Kerri, Yes there is a big difference between persecution and death. Please re-read my post and look at any thoughts you might have through the lense of people being the church...not an organization. At this particular point in time (2007) many people hear the word "church" and think of an organization, or even a cheap structure. When persecution comes (i hope soon) it will force us to see "church" in it's rawest most beautiful form. The church i'm in love with is the people. The church I want to die is the mentality that it's a place. By the way I love church with all my heart! Jimmy, Kerri,
Yes there is a big difference between persecution and death.
Please re-read my post and look at any thoughts you might have through the lense of people being the church…not an organization. At this particular point in time (2007) many people hear the word “church” and think of an organization, or even a cheap structure. When persecution comes (i hope soon) it will force us to see “church” in it’s rawest most beautiful form.

The church i’m in love with is the people.
The church I want to die is the mentality that it’s a place.

By the way I love church with all my heart!

]]> By: sheri http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51674 sheri Fri, 19 Oct 2007 03:42:56 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51674 this makes me think of peter...he was so sure he would NOT deny Jesus, but did 3 times. I think that we need to examine our own walk & not be too confident in ourselves & our faith. where's the church consumer come from? well, church these days is made to be about US! we tell people what a christian should look & act like...tell them to obey God & start serving everywhere. BUT...we don't focus on their hearts....teaching WHO God IS rather than How we can serve him. we don't teach enough OUR identity in Christ...our inheritance..what belongs to us...so people are not falling in love with God completely. they are changing slowly from trying so hard, but if we would teach the pure milk, & people get it, their actions will follow. I am a walking testimony of this! I'm just a lay person, but I meet w/ people every available opportunity to share the truth because faith comes from hearing & hearing of the word! 1 hour at church is not enough to bring REAL faith! look back at the 1500's & how we got the bible in print...people gave their lives for us to have access to the word today. how many people actually read it? we don't even know the sacrifice. I think we need to spend more time w/ Him & in the word so that HE will be an overflowing from our lives...a result of Him in us..not us trying to look like a christian...that's not going to hold up through a headache much less persecution. I'm evaluating my own life right now. I'm typing from my cell phone...please forgive the errors. this makes me think of peter…he was so sure he would NOT deny Jesus, but did 3 times. I think that we need to examine our own walk & not be too confident in ourselves & our faith.
where’s the church consumer come from? well, church these days is made to be about US! we tell people what a christian should look & act like…tell them to obey God & start serving everywhere.
BUT…we don’t focus on their hearts….teaching WHO God IS rather than How we can serve him. we don’t teach enough OUR identity in Christ…our inheritance..what belongs to us…so people are not falling in love with God completely. they are changing slowly from trying so hard, but if we would teach the pure milk, & people get it, their actions will follow. I am a walking testimony of this!
I’m just a lay person, but I meet w/ people every available opportunity to share the truth because faith comes from hearing & hearing of the word! 1 hour at church is not enough to bring REAL faith!
look back at the 1500’s & how we got the bible in print…people gave their lives for us to have access to the word today. how many people actually read it? we don’t even know the sacrifice.
I think we need to spend more time w/ Him & in the word so that HE will be an overflowing from our lives…a result of Him in us..not us trying to look like a christian…that’s not going to hold up through a headache much less persecution.
I’m evaluating my own life right now.
I’m typing from my cell phone…please forgive the errors.

]]> By: Avery http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51624 Avery Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:45:15 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51624 By the way, to answer Kevin's question... (How do you lead the two groups) ... I think the only answer is to example (or practice) what we preach... Let's figure out from God's word how we should "do church" <b>instead of from every where else</b>... and then <b>do it</b> as the apostle James suggested... <b>22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.</b> 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, <b>he will be blessed in his doing.</b> If you worry too much about the circumstances, you forget who God is and what He is capable of like Peter did on Galillee. (To his credit though, he jumped out of the boat...) I think leaders first need to shout out "save me Lord"... and let God worry about the fellas in the boat who haven't taken that leap... By the way, to answer Kevin’s question…
(How do you lead the two groups)

… I think the only answer is to example (or practice) what we preach…

Let’s figure out from God’s word how we should “do church” instead of from every where else… and then do it as the apostle James suggested…

22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

If you worry too much about the circumstances, you forget who God is and what He is capable of like Peter did on Galillee. (To his credit though, he jumped out of the boat…)

I think leaders first need to shout out “save me Lord”…
and let God worry about the fellas in the boat who haven’t taken that leap…

]]> By: Avery http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51617 Avery Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:09:20 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51617 You know the human me doesn't want to think about things like this... I want to hide from the truth, and wish everything was doing great... (I have to wonder what my part could possibly be in what you have written) I want to speak, and think positively... and be uplifting... But the Christian part of me can't live without taking a hard look at the truth... I asked myself questions like... Will I be one who "falls away", or maybe even becomes part of the persecution? The truth is, that the same Jesus that died for the church, is coming to jusge every living thing... This is a reality that we all must live in... The truth is, there will be suffering for everyone who wants to live godly in Christ, and we know that Jesus foretold that it would get far worse, befor it gets better... there will be a falling away... Again, I think this blogpost is prophetic Craig... It is contraversial, unnerving, and by some will be unpopular or quickly forgotten, but it is biblical, and will certainly come to pass... the only real issue is "when".. I am part sobered, part encouraged, and all the way thankful that you posted it.. can't wait for tommorrow's post... You know the human me doesn’t want to think about things like this… I want to hide from the truth, and wish everything was doing great… (I have to wonder what my part could possibly be in what you have written)

I want to speak, and think positively… and be uplifting…

But the Christian part of me can’t live without taking a hard look at the truth…

I asked myself questions like…

Will I be one who “falls away”, or maybe even becomes part of the persecution?

The truth is, that the same Jesus that died for the church, is coming to jusge every living thing…

This is a reality that we all must live in…

The truth is, there will be suffering for everyone who wants to live godly in Christ, and we know that Jesus foretold that it would get far worse, befor it gets better… there will be a falling away…

Again, I think this blogpost is prophetic Craig…

It is contraversial, unnerving, and by some will be unpopular or quickly forgotten, but it is biblical, and will certainly come to pass… the only real issue is “when”..

I am part sobered, part encouraged, and all the way thankful that you posted it.. can’t wait for tommorrow’s post…

]]> By: BW Roberts http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51609 BW Roberts Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:31:27 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51609 Awesome post, i definitely agree! Awesome post, i definitely agree!

]]> By: Leadership Network Learnings http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51605 Leadership Network Learnings Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:19:08 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51605 <strong>What's the church's future?...</strong> This week, Pastor Craig Groeschel of LifeChurch.tv, has begun an intriguing series of blog posts about the future of the church: Future of the Church 1 (of 5) - larger and smaller Future of the Church 2 (of 5) -... What’s the church’s future?…

This week, Pastor Craig Groeschel of LifeChurch.tv, has begun an intriguing series of blog posts about the future of the church: Future of the Church 1 (of 5) - larger and smaller Future of the Church 2 (of 5) -…

]]> By: jimmy paravane http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51604 jimmy paravane Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:12:28 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51604 Got em Joseph: http://hgc2005.rccg.org/site/story of HGS.htm & http://davidoyedepoministries.org Whew! You guys don't pull any punches. This is out of context, but still, wow; 'Many prosperity preachers have missed this point. They tell you that if you give, God will in turn increase your purse. It is not true. "God will not give the returns to everybody. He will only do so on these premise: Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. He will only prosper those whose thought life is the kingdom when they sleep, wake up, when they are looking for a business. Everything is so that the kingdom of God can flourish. The kingdom of God is the motive they have for every effort they put into life.' Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the links. aaron - ouch, we kinda pounce on you. Sorry about that. Got em Joseph:
http://hgc2005.rccg.org/site/story of HGS.htm & http://davidoyedepoministries.org
Whew! You guys don’t pull any punches. This is out of context, but still, wow; ‘Many prosperity preachers have missed this point. They tell you that if you give, God will in turn increase your purse. It is not true. “God will not give the returns to everybody. He will only do so on these premise: Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. He will only prosper those whose thought life is the kingdom when they sleep, wake up, when they are looking for a business. Everything is so that the kingdom of God can flourish. The kingdom of God is the motive they have for every effort they put into life.’ Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the links.
aaron - ouch, we kinda pounce on you. Sorry about that.

]]> By: Michael E. http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51598 Michael E. Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:34:08 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51598 For MM: Yes, there are good reasons for leaving a church, but doing that based upon your needs is different than church shopping (or as I like to call it, Church Hopping). Changing churches because of the innate desire to be led, fed, and encouraged to change the world as a response to the Grace and Love of Christ is wholly different than simply changing churches because "my kids are bored," or "I'm bored," or you don't like the pastor, or something better is down the street. Church shopping is appropriate; you must find the family of faith that best suits your NEEDS as defined by the God-shaped whole in each of us. Hopping without necessity is simply expending energy that could be better served changing some part of the world for the glory of the Kingdom of God. For MM:
Yes, there are good reasons for leaving a church, but doing that based upon your needs is different than church shopping (or as I like to call it, Church Hopping).

Changing churches because of the innate desire to be led, fed, and encouraged to change the world as a response to the Grace and Love of Christ is wholly different than simply changing churches because “my kids are bored,” or “I’m bored,” or you don’t like the pastor, or something better is down the street.

Church shopping is appropriate; you must find the family of faith that best suits your NEEDS as defined by the God-shaped whole in each of us. Hopping without necessity is simply expending energy that could be better served changing some part of the world for the glory of the Kingdom of God.

]]> By: Kerri http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51579 Kerri Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:53:24 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51579 Wow, Aaron. I wonder how you'd feel if someone talked about your wife like that? The church is Jesus' bride. It is the only thing on this earth that He ever said that He would build. It really breaks my heart to hear such a tone of disdain and contempt toward the church that we are commissioned to steward in our generation. Even in the epistles of the new testament, you never hear such sentiments in the tone of the apostles' letters. Jesus birthed the church out of the blood and water spilled from His side. He empowered her through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and He established her through the death of many, many martyrs. We are so blessed to live in a time where the church is strong in stature and influence across many parts of the earth. I think Paul and the early church fathers would have rejoiced to see the day that we could be openly meeting in large numbers without fear of persecution. I would venture to say that Christians from nations where they are persecuted for their faith would caution you to not speak such words, as they have probably seen many of their loved ones wrongfully imprisioned or even killed. Rather, I think they would encurage you, as I do, to be thankful for the opportunity you have now and to steward it wisely -- even if that means simply inviting someone to church. Wow, Aaron. I wonder how you’d feel if someone talked about your wife like that? The church is Jesus’ bride. It is the only thing on this earth that He ever said that He would build. It really breaks my heart to hear such a tone of disdain and contempt toward the church that we are commissioned to steward in our generation. Even in the epistles of the new testament, you never hear such sentiments in the tone of the apostles’ letters. Jesus birthed the church out of the blood and water spilled from His side. He empowered her through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and He established her through the death of many, many martyrs.

We are so blessed to live in a time where the church is strong in stature and influence across many parts of the earth. I think Paul and the early church fathers would have rejoiced to see the day that we could be openly meeting in large numbers without fear of persecution.

I would venture to say that Christians from nations where they are persecuted for their faith would caution you to not speak such words, as they have probably seen many of their loved ones wrongfully imprisioned or even killed. Rather, I think they would encurage you, as I do, to be thankful for the opportunity you have now and to steward it wisely — even if that means simply inviting someone to church.

]]> By: jimmy paravane http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51578 jimmy paravane Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:45:27 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51578 Hey aaron, woah, slow down.! That's the bride of Christ yer talking about. How would you like it if somebody said that about your wife? (grin) There's a big difference between persecution and death. As Cheap Grace might sing, surrender, surrender, but don't give yourself away... Hey aaron, woah, slow down.! That’s the bride of Christ yer talking about. How would you like it if somebody said that about your wife? (grin) There’s a big difference between persecution and death. As Cheap Grace might sing, surrender, surrender, but don’t give yourself away…

]]> By: aaron http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51554 aaron Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:52:05 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51554 I'm so excited to watch the church die! When i'm more comfortable handing my neighbor an invitation to a "church" than I am personally loving, living and showing them the "church" through my life...then something is terribly wrong. The faster the "church" can be persecuted the better. I’m so excited to watch the church die! When i’m more comfortable handing my neighbor an invitation to a “church” than I am personally loving, living and showing them the “church” through my life…then something is terribly wrong. The faster the “church” can be persecuted the better.

]]> By: John Ireland http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51530 John Ireland Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:57:41 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51530 Craig ~ Good word. Isn't it sad that "consumer-Christian" is even a phrase you would need to use? I suspect that if we all had a true, in-your-face, unavoidable, deep-in-the-gut understanding about what Christ-like discipleship means, we would come nowhere close to a "consumer" faith. Thanks for all that you and LC do to serve people and serve God by drawing others to Him. John Ireland Volunteer Servant-Leader Quest Community Church Lexington, KY Craig ~

Good word.

Isn’t it sad that “consumer-Christian” is even a phrase you would need to use? I suspect that if we all had a true, in-your-face, unavoidable, deep-in-the-gut understanding about what Christ-like discipleship means, we would come nowhere close to a “consumer” faith.

Thanks for all that you and LC do to serve people and serve God by drawing others to Him.

John Ireland
Volunteer Servant-Leader
Quest Community Church
Lexington, KY

]]> By: Kendra http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51517 Kendra Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:25:27 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51517 My husband and I have been talking about this a lot recently. We see a time of increasing pain coming. Paul told Timothy that everyone who lives a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. I think the American church is not being persecuted because we're not living the way we've been called to. The surging wave of anti-church feeling and impending political changes are actually a sign that we're waking up from our coma. Rising persecution is a great symptom of a strengthening church. You can just as easily say that persecution brings spiritual strength as you can the other way around. When Chronicles charges us that, "If my people called by my name will humble themselves and pray..." I always thought it was to ask God to "fix up" our nation. I now think the prayer and repentance it calls for is to fix me up and get me back in stride with Him. My husband and I have been talking about this a lot recently. We see a time of increasing pain coming. Paul told Timothy that everyone who lives a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. I think the American church is not being persecuted because we’re not living the way we’ve been called to. The surging wave of anti-church feeling and impending political changes are actually a sign that we’re waking up from our coma. Rising persecution is a great symptom of a strengthening church.

You can just as easily say that persecution brings spiritual strength as you can the other way around. When Chronicles charges us that, “If my people called by my name will humble themselves and pray…” I always thought it was to ask God to “fix up” our nation. I now think the prayer and repentance it calls for is to fix me up and get me back in stride with Him.

]]> By: Amilcar Groschel Jr http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/comment-page-1/#comment-51500 Amilcar Groschel Jr Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:01:55 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/10/18/future-of-the-church-4-of-5/#comment-51500 Right on the spot. If future (or even better: present/future) christians aren't becoming what you pointed out, what are we becoming then? Right on the spot. If future (or even better: present/future) christians aren’t becoming what you pointed out, what are we becoming then?

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