Comments on: Leaving the Church 2 (of 4)

By: Craig Groeschel

Craig Groeschel — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:45:20 +0000

Matt, We teach this at the membership class. Then I send a letter and a vodcast each December to remind the members about the process. Each weekend at church, we also communicate that we have x numbers of members, but as of January 1, we have zero. We remind them we will renew our membership vows in January. We have people stand up to commit to another year on the first weekend, then receive their information every weekend in January (for those who might miss).

By: Matt Galloway

Matt Galloway — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:33:18 +0000

Craig,
Can you give the details of how you do the membership renewal process? We are thinking along these lines for our church, but we don’t want to have to reinvent the wheel. How do they communicate they want to renew? How far out to you publicize the renewal process? Any other info you can give would be helpful. Thanks for your help.

By: Marcin Mizak

Marcin Mizak — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:34:03 +0000

Thank you Craig. Thanks everybody. Great stuff.

By: Scott

Scott — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 01:37:45 +0000

This was a great blog! Particularly the comment about people change; as well as what they need from the church changes. I had lunch with a gentleman today who felt God leading him to a different place, which changed his overall perspective. He told me that after he finished reading John Ortberg’s book “If You Want to Walk on Water, You’ve Got to Get Out of The Boat,” he made the decision to leave his church home of many years and since then he has been attending the NW LifeChurch.tv Campus. His former Pastor received his departure gracefully; however he stated that the majority of the questionable feedback that he has received has been from those individuals who are yet to change and have “The Firm�? mentality. At the end of the day it’s an individual’s discretion, and that’s what makes it “All Good.”

By: Craig Groeschel

Craig Groeschel — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:26:50 +0000

A couple of you asked about how we do membership. It has evolved (and is evolving).

I’m not a huge fan of membership (we’re members of the family of Christ, not a church), but do it for practical reasons. I believe it helps raise commitment.

We ask people to commit through the calendar year to:
1) Serve in the church
2) Tithe
3) Participate in a Life Group
4) Partipate in missions

The commitment lasts through the end of the calendar year. Then we erase all members from our files (including mine). We all must commit again for the following year.

By: John Fanous

John Fanous — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:51:04 +0000

Craig,

Someone once told me about how LifeChurch does membership, and it really intrigued me. Can you go into more detail about how you have members re-commit and how you keep track of it in your database. The specifics would be great! Thanks.

By: Sam B

Sam B — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:50:53 +0000

In my early twenties I was a full time volunteer for a missions organization, and when it was time for me to move on I was told (I quote) that I was disappointing God, and that if I left I would never do anything for God again.
Thankfully God saw otherwise, and I’m currently an ordained, associate pastor in a thriving, growing church, and will one day move back to the mission field (India) full time.

By: Rusty

Rusty — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:16:49 +0000

Craig,

What does it mean to commit to Lifechurch for the next year? Do you have some type of criteria?

By: Greg Johnson

Greg Johnson — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:06:38 +0000

Craig,

Great piece! Thanks for sharing it. It’s good to see a pastor that is secure in their calling and not territorial. My wife and I planted Loving God Fellowship (LGF) here in Salem, Oregon 18 months ago. Salem is the capital of the most unchurched state in the nation. We pray for every service that God brings in who He wills to be there. We accept who is there as an answer to prayer. We care for the ones God gives us, but we refuse to chase after them if they find that LGF is not for them. There is much joy in just trusting God to build His church.

Thanks for being secure, transparent, authentic and willing to build God’s Kingdom and pointing people to obedience instead of your church. It’s so refreshing!

gaj

By: Joshua Gagnon

Joshua Gagnon — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:10:53 +0000

It’s a very hard thing to pour your life and invest all of your time into people that might someday move on to another place of worship. I have this amazing desire to see people become fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ, The cool thing is, that Jesus even has a greater desire than me. I know that sounds elementary, but when we truly believe God is in control we stop fearing the growth of his Church that we are ministering at and start allowing him to bring in……and lead out whoever he chooses. We kicked of a pioneer work 6 months ago and for the first 4 months I was a wreck because so many people come and go….but I realized an important truth. Some people will be staging others will be pillars neither the staging nor the pillar are more important. Without the staging we could never get high enough to set the pillars into place, the only difference is, the pillar remains and the staging eventually moves on…

By: Mike Jones

Mike Jones — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:50:46 +0000

Brett,

Thanks … I think you’re completely right. I hadn’t thought of it in that way.

By: Sheri

Sheri — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:33:15 +0000

A seed has to die to itself before it can be planted. However, the soil has to crack the seed before it can reap a harvest….most Christian’s today need to have the soil crack their seed so that they can eventually reap a harvest. Submission doesn’t begin until there is a disagreement. I believe we need to do a better job of loving others up (love doesn’t always mean “yes”) than giving up on the work of God in them! Quit giving people an easy way to stay unchanged!

What if we stopped throwing problem people to the next guy and realized that we are One body? What would happen if we started building Unity? What would happen in the world if we stopped kicking out our own people? Church is NOT the building or the vision - it is the BODY of Christ…connecting with God together and loving each other (tough love and encouragement). I just want Christians to start truly living out of GOD in them, not out of their own mind, opinions and selfish motives. We have self proclaimed believers in our church that agree with the vision (so they wouldn’t get kicked out), but are living in sin everyday.

I have seen many SOLID believers leave the church. We NEED these people to love on the babies! 1 Cor. 12:22 “On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable.” I know what commentary says on this, but the Holy Spirit’s voice in me tells me that someone I may see as weak or a road bump may be the very thing we need to crack the soil.

My friend is a teacher and she does an example with 6 people. 1 person has the role of lips; 2 people are arms; 2 people are legs and 1 person is the bottom. The Objective: The team of 6 has to blow up a balloon using teamwork then walk the balloon over to a chair and the bottom sits on it. What do we learn from this? Everyone has a role to accomplish the objective - even the Butt!

Robin, you are one of the anchor in LC for all the babies who need to be loved and need MILK! You are a ROCK STAR love bug and example to many! Praise God for people like you that STAY!

By: Robin

Robin — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:21:18 +0000

This blog made me think about staying instead of leaving! I’ve experienced both and know that leaving is sometimes VERY necessary. But, when it is so easy to leave, people can really miss out on heart changes and growth in their own lives. Looking for a place to be happy and content isn’t necessarily what God is calling us to do. When Lifechurch became two campuses, we were current members of the church that became that second campus. Many members could not accept the shift in ideaology and thinking from belonging to a traditional church versus Lifechurch’s mission. They were discontent and felt unhappy. So they left. But they may have missed the life lessons and blessings God wanted them to have if they had stayed. Sometimes staying is harder than leaving . Here’s what I learned from staying:

It’s not about me —-this is a huge change that took place in my heart. Being raised in a traditional church I thought I was there to build MYSELF up! Man, is that wrong thinking!

The church building is not for me. It was hard to let go of a central meeting place for women’s groups, lifegroups, etc. But I’ve seen that real “church�? is done outside the walls of the church building.

Church programs only made me a “fatter�? Christian. I sang in the choir. The choir went away. I was involved in women’s ministry. The women’s ministry went away. I discovered that I had to find new places to serve, new places to express my worship to God. The 3-year old nursery on Saturday nights is about the best form of worship I have ever found!

I’m glad I stayed!!

By: Suzanne Wild

Suzanne Wild — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:10:07 +0000

Ryan, your story literally brought tears to my eyes. Bless you for following God’s call, and may you and your family bring glory to His name wherever he leads you!

By: Jeremy Farmer

Jeremy Farmer — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:19:25 +0000

Got it, thanks for the info.

Craig, thanks for putting people before your ministry and the Kingdom of God before your church. There is a reason why you have had the success that you have…and it all has to do with the fact that you’ve put people first. Jesus did. And so have you.

By: Deneen

Deneen — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:16:06 +0000

Wow. Thank you for writing this series. If a church is a healthy, living and vibrant organism, that means that there will be a natural flow of people into the church and out of the church. Thank you for openly recognizing this unspoken part of church life.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:04:41 +0000

My family and I have been a part of LifeChurch from nearly inception. I came to know the person of Jesus through LifeChurch. It has really been my only experience in a church. This conversation is really foreign to me about being able to leave a church. It makes churches sound more like a right-wing conservative gang that you have to be “stomped” out of than the body of Christ. I can always remember Craig telling people, if this is not the place for you, here is a list of churches that I would recommend to you.

My wife and I had been feeling a “discontentment” for the past two years. It wasn’t a feeling that we where supposed to “church shop”, it is more like God is wanting something from us. 6 months ago I read an article in the Oklahoma City paper about a new church plant in mid town OKC. My wife and I just kind of looked at each other and she I said think you should go check it out.

I went by myself the first night and I immediately felt God saying this is where I want you to be. I did not tell my wife what I heard God saying because I wanted her to hear it for herself. After she went the second weekend, she confirmed what God had told me, that this is the community that God needs our family to be a part of.

We have countless friends that we still hold dear to us and still feel apart of LifeChurch, not because we signed our name to a membership card but because of relationships.

When we shared what God was asking of our family, we never received one negative response. We received nothing but love and encouragement. You see, our family was never a part of an organization. We are a part of a Kingdom.

By: Brett

Brett — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:45:38 +0000

Mike,
I think that creating an open door environment combats the ‘me first’ mentality, not fosters it. To me, leaving the door open says we have a mission and we are not compromising it for anyones specific needs. What you will be left with is people who are solidly behind the mission God has given for a particular body. Those with the ‘me first’ mentality have either changed and signed on to the mission or they on to somewhere else gracefully and with our blessing. I will do everything I can to bring them to see the vision, but if they cant or wont, then they are free to look elsewhere.

I have been challenged with this recently; It is easy for people (or numbers) to become our idols. We try to hold on to people more than we try to hold on to the mission or vision God has given us for our churches and that makes it an idol. Just something I am working through right now…

By: Mike Jones

Mike Jones — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:13:05 +0000

How do you balance creating an environment which allows people to leave gracefully without fostering an idea that the church should be what “I” want and what “I” need. (i.e. forgetting that we are the church, not a building that should be conformed to our current wants)

I’m referring to the situation you’ve fictionalized when you said you better find a small church you like and then pray no one joins it because it then wouldn’t be small and fit your wants/needs anymore.

By: Brett

Brett — Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:01:06 +0000

About 6 years ago I found myself ‘trapped’ in a church in the way you are speaking of. When we finally did leave, we lost relationships that we had for 10 years. It was a really difficult time.

Having said that, I would not be where I am today had I not removed myself from there. God had a plan, and sometimes he uses painful situations to steer us back to it.

But I often wonder what it may have been like if there had been an open door to leave. I wonder how many relationships I would still have from that church if the atmosphere had been different. I wonder how I would have been empowered to thrive in the personal ministry God gave me.

I want to try to empower people to run after God’s will for them wherever it may be and cheer them on! Still learning on that one….