Comments on: Leaving the Church (1 of 4) http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/ a leadership, technology, and innovation blog for pastors and church leaders Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:39:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: khalida shafqat http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-157989 khalida shafqat Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:11:54 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-157989 greetings and blessing in name of lord jesus we are working for jesus christ.god bless u all greetings and blessing in name of lord jesus we are working for jesus christ.god bless u all

]]> By: Pastor Don http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-156799 Pastor Don Sun, 03 Aug 2008 15:36:28 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-156799 Craig Interesting approach to church growth. I am a new pastor to a wounded church. I have lots of seats to fill from people who have left hurt. I have been looking over the congregation with this concept in mind even before I ran into your concept. I am moving cautiously as I don't want to additionally hurt others but moving in the direction of "freedom to visit other churches in the area". Thanks for the encouragement to allow people to leave gracefully and positively. Craig

Interesting approach to church growth. I am a new pastor to a wounded church. I have lots of seats to fill from people who have left hurt. I have been looking over the congregation with this concept in mind even before I ran into your concept. I am moving cautiously as I don’t want to additionally hurt others but moving in the direction of “freedom to visit other churches in the area”. Thanks for the encouragement to allow people to leave gracefully and positively.

]]> By: MM http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-115322 MM Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:48:37 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-115322 the problem seems to find it's beginning in your assumptions "For our ministries to grow, we have to have more people coming in the front than we have leaving through the back." For "OUR" ministries? There is an unhealthy spirit of ownership. It manifest it's self in authority demands, controlled environments, and division. There is one Church, one Body, one Bride! What is needed is not ownership or lordship but a spirit of service, a spirit of fatherhood. It breaks my heart to see so many cheerfully and mockingly suggest a lamb find a new shepherd. Paul asks “is Christ divided?” how dare we live so smugly? How dare we suggest the solution to the problems of “OUR” ministry find their solution in the division of the body of Christ! the problem seems to find it’s beginning in your assumptions “For our ministries to grow, we have to have more people coming in the front than we have leaving through the back.”

For “OUR” ministries? There is an unhealthy spirit of ownership. It manifest it’s self in authority demands, controlled environments, and division. There is one Church, one Body, one Bride! What is needed is not ownership or lordship but a spirit of service, a spirit of fatherhood.

It breaks my heart to see so many cheerfully and mockingly suggest a lamb find a new shepherd. Paul asks “is Christ divided?” how dare we live so smugly? How dare we suggest the solution to the problems of “OUR” ministry find their solution in the division of the body of Christ!

]]> By: poly|resin » Leaving church: when is it a good time to go? http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-36254 poly|resin » Leaving church: when is it a good time to go? Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:49:24 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-36254 [...] This guy has an interesting series of posts on when it’s time to find (or encourage someone else to find) a new church. (via CMS) [...] [...] This guy has an interesting series of posts on when it’s time to find (or encourage someone else to find) a new church. (via CMS) [...]

]]> By: Charles http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-32508 Charles Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:30:28 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-32508 Thank you all for sharing the pain in your hearts. I am glad Jesus paved the pain path for us. After 12 years of full time ministry I found myself in a divorce situation. Pariah! Am now serving a smaller church as a bivocational pastor and have found God is using all my learned skills of a full time pastor in ways unimaginable. Yet the conflict is still present no matter the size of church because it is filled with sinners. Thank God for that. We wouldn't have jobs otherwise. Blessings to you all, Pastor Charles PS.. If the back door isn't cracked try using the window. Sometimes it is more satisfying! Thank you all for sharing the pain in your hearts. I am glad Jesus paved the pain path for us. After 12 years of full time ministry I found myself in a divorce situation. Pariah! Am now serving a smaller church as a bivocational pastor and have found God is using all my learned skills of a full time pastor in ways unimaginable. Yet the conflict is still present no matter the size of church because it is filled with sinners. Thank God for that. We wouldn’t have jobs otherwise.

Blessings to you all,

Pastor Charles

PS.. If the back door isn’t cracked try using the window. Sometimes it is more satisfying!

]]> By: Jim McNeely http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-32336 Jim McNeely Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:08:39 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-32336 Most folks deserve the right hand of fellowship. Some should receive a subsequent left foot of fellowship. -Jim Most folks deserve the right hand of fellowship.

Some should receive a subsequent left foot of fellowship.

-Jim

]]> By: Felix http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-32325 Felix Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:44:09 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-32325 God has spoken to me through all of you, thanks. I had our pianist (very talented one) with one-foot out of the church. He is not willing to be part of the vision even though he agrees with it. Last week, he talked to the praise and worship ministry about his decision to leave, but has not tell us when. I didn’t want him to leave, but at the same time he was causing us a great deal of setbacks. I will bless his departure now and kiss him good-bye. Pastor Felix. God has spoken to me through all of you, thanks. I had our pianist (very talented one) with one-foot out of the church. He is not willing to be part of the vision even though he agrees with it. Last week, he talked to the praise and worship ministry about his decision to leave, but has not tell us when. I didn’t want him to leave, but at the same time he was causing us a great deal of setbacks. I will bless his departure now and kiss him good-bye.
Pastor Felix.

]]> By: PastorJuan http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-29078 PastorJuan Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:57:24 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-29078 I am one who believes that some people are only with you for a season, and season change. You will drive yourself crazier, trying simply to close the back door. I agree, leave it cracked, because we need a breeze. I am one who believes that some people are only with you for a season, and season change. You will drive yourself crazier, trying simply to close the back door. I agree, leave it cracked, because we need a breeze.

]]> By: Jan http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-27901 Jan Wed, 25 Jul 2007 04:54:24 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-27901 I've actually been the person who both needed to leave and stay at the same time. I thought my work was not yet through. The head pastor said this to me knowing my torn heart. "Jan, it's ok for you to leave if you want to or if you think you need to. You have not only my permission, but my blessing as well. It will be different without you, and difficult as well, but God will use you wherever and whatever you decide when you seek Him with your whole heart." I must tell you, tht his giving me permission has helped in counsel to "others" of nearly each type of individual mentioned in prior posts. One charter member couple who were particularly bitter decided to 'wait' out the founding pastor. To their suprise, he was granted another 15yrs! They eventually calmed down when they realized they were NOT in control of anyone or anything! I’ve actually been the person who both needed to leave and stay at the same time. I thought my work was not yet through. The head pastor said this to me knowing my torn heart. “Jan, it’s ok for you to leave if you want to or if you think you need to. You have not only my permission, but my blessing as well. It will be different without you, and difficult as well, but God will use you wherever and whatever you decide when you seek Him with your whole heart.”
I must tell you, tht his giving me permission has helped in counsel to “others” of nearly each type of individual mentioned in prior posts.
One charter member couple who were particularly bitter decided to ‘wait’ out the founding pastor. To their suprise, he was granted another 15yrs! They eventually calmed down when they realized they were NOT in control of anyone or anything!

]]> By: hotspur http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26840 hotspur Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:09:01 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26840 "I vowed never to work “in? a church again (never say never) and found myself in the same situation as you, wishing those who were living in sin while leading a church would be exposed. I wanted justice. I wanted the pain that it caused to be rectified because I know it was not a fair situation. And it sucks." Thanks Anne. I needed that. Same situation (sorta) got pushed out the back door 20 years ago and only in the last three years had the guts to go back in for my daughter's sake. I just didn't realize it was going to be a Reform Temple (lol!) Hang in there gang. There's an old Jewish teaching: life is meant to be challenging. Those who aren't being forced to constantly improve themselves by those set challenges are the ones warming the bench. Last I checked JC didn't ride a bench. Jews have their problems with evangelical Christianity, but have a ton of respect for evangelical Christians. “I vowed never to work “in? a church again (never say never) and found myself in the same situation as you, wishing those who were living in sin while leading a church would be exposed. I wanted justice. I wanted the pain that it caused to be rectified because I know it was not a fair situation. And it sucks.”

Thanks Anne. I needed that. Same situation (sorta) got pushed out the back door 20 years ago and only in the last three years had the guts to go back in for my daughter’s sake. I just didn’t realize it was going to be a Reform Temple (lol!)

Hang in there gang. There’s an old Jewish teaching: life is meant to be challenging. Those who aren’t being forced to constantly improve themselves by those set challenges are the ones warming the bench. Last I checked JC didn’t ride a bench. Jews have their problems with evangelical Christianity, but have a ton of respect for evangelical Christians.

]]> By: Roy http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26592 Roy Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:02:45 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26592 I will never forget something that happened to me some 14 years ago. I was new on staff at the church I was then serving, having had to relocate from a toxic staff situation for my own emotional survival (and that of my family). I had been on the new field for about 6 months when my pastor called me into his office to let me know that a family with strong involvement in my secondary area of ministry responsibility (combination position) and marginal involvement in my primary had let him know that they planned to find another church in our community. One of their main areas of dissatisfaction was in my secondary responsibility area (children's ministry). What my pastor said after he told me of their leaving floored me. I braced for impact when he told me that I had not yet known him long enough to know that he was "not a nose-wiper." He said that when people came to him with concerns (as this family obviously had), he weighed carefully what they said and took action to address the concern if he felt it necessary. "If I've done all I feel I can and should do to address their concerns and they're still dissatisfied, then they go with my blessing. There is no competition in the Kingdom. I'd rather have them happily, actively serving Christ in another fellowship in our community than to have them unhappy and continuing to be involved in this one. I think you're doing a fine job. Keep up the good work." I will NEVER forget him for that. That would never have happened in my previous ministry situation. In that situation, the squeaky wheels got greased even if they were squeaking because they were trying to roll in the wrong direction. The bottom line: Yes, sometimes people do need to find another church for their benefit and for the benefit of the Kingdom. The reality: it rarely happens, and only a small percentage of those who do relocate do it well. I will never forget something that happened to me some 14 years ago. I was new on staff at the church I was then serving, having had to relocate from a toxic staff situation for my own emotional survival (and that of my family). I had been on the new field for about 6 months when my pastor called me into his office to let me know that a family with strong involvement in my secondary area of ministry responsibility (combination position) and marginal involvement in my primary had let him know that they planned to find another church in our community. One of their main areas of dissatisfaction was in my secondary responsibility area (children’s ministry).

What my pastor said after he told me of their leaving floored me. I braced for impact when he told me that I had not yet known him long enough to know that he was “not a nose-wiper.” He said that when people came to him with concerns (as this family obviously had), he weighed carefully what they said and took action to address the concern if he felt it necessary. “If I’ve done all I feel I can and should do to address their concerns and they’re still dissatisfied, then they go with my blessing. There is no competition in the Kingdom. I’d rather have them happily, actively serving Christ in another fellowship in our community than to have them unhappy and continuing to be involved in this one. I think you’re doing a fine job. Keep up the good work.”

I will NEVER forget him for that. That would never have happened in my previous ministry situation. In that situation, the squeaky wheels got greased even if they were squeaking because they were trying to roll in the wrong direction.

The bottom line: Yes, sometimes people do need to find another church for their benefit and for the benefit of the Kingdom. The reality: it rarely happens, and only a small percentage of those who do relocate do it well.

]]> By: Billy Ritchie http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26543 Billy Ritchie Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:04:03 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26543 Craig A well known church leader in the UK says that one of the most important facts he had to come to terms with was: "People come and people go." He used to sit and do leaving interviews with people leaving. He decided to change this for a few reasons. 1. People leaving are usually looking to unload their baggage. 2. You are giving them what they want - attention 3. Its better to learn whats good and keeping the vast majority who are committed, growing and serving the church. Craig

A well known church leader in the UK says that one of the most important facts he had to come to terms with was: “People come and people go.” He used to sit and do leaving interviews with people leaving. He decided to change this for a few reasons.

1. People leaving are usually looking to unload their baggage.
2. You are giving them what they want - attention
3. Its better to learn whats good and keeping the vast majority who are committed, growing and serving the church.

]]> By: Ryan http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26523 Ryan Tue, 17 Jul 2007 04:10:00 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26523 In the words of the great theologian Sting, If you love somebody If you love someone, set them free Set them free Set them free Set them free You cant control an independent heart Cant tear the one you love apart Forever conditioned to believe that we cant live We cant live here and be happy with less So many riches So many souls With everything we see that we want to possess In the words of the great theologian Sting,

If you love somebody
If you love someone, set them free
Set them free
Set them free
Set them free

You cant control an independent heart
Cant tear the one you love apart
Forever conditioned to believe that we cant live
We cant live here and be happy with less
So many riches
So many souls
With everything we see that we want to possess

]]> By: Ray http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26507 Ray Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:51:01 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26507 You know, I agree, if we can't get people on our vision, then we should help them find a place they "fit in." Similar to that "back door" they issued Jesus out of to the edge of a cliff so they could stone him. No I agree, a trouble maker can ruin the movement of the spirit. Others though, may only be challenging the status quo. "Pursue life! Follow me!" - Jesus You know, I agree, if we can’t get people on our vision, then we should help them find a place they “fit in.” Similar to that “back door” they issued Jesus out of to the edge of a cliff so they could stone him.

No I agree, a trouble maker can ruin the movement of the spirit. Others though, may only be challenging the status quo.

“Pursue life! Follow me!” - Jesus

]]> By: Anne Jackson http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26498 Anne Jackson Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:56:59 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26498 Bruce, I am so sorry for what you and your wife are experiencing and hope my friend's story didn't make light of your situation. Trust me when I say I have been there as a PK and as a staff member. My dad "left"...in order to not cause conflict...from a church when I was 16 after have pastoring for 11 years full time. The rest of the staff "left" as well. It took him and my mom until last year, so 10ish years, to even step foot in another church. But he is now in a position where he knows he needs to be a pastor, and teach again, and is finding it difficult to have churches even take a glance at his resume when they see he hasn't been in ministry for over ten years (vocationally). Sadly I know a few other pastors in situations similar to his. In a former life, I should have left a staff position sooner but felt I needed to save the world so I stayed too long. After a particularly feisty meeting with my lead pastor, I was told "Your dreams are too big for (church name) so you should probably find a place that can handle them." Ouch. I vowed never to work "in" a church again (never say never) and found myself in the same situation as you, wishing those who were living in sin while leading a church would be exposed. I wanted justice. I wanted the pain that it caused to be rectified because I know it was not a fair situation. And it sucks. Sometimes we won't see justice in our life time and sometimes we will. I'll be praying for you and your wife. If there's anything my husband or I can do feel free to email me at girlnamedanne[at]gmail[dot]com. Even if you'd like to contact my dad, I am sure you two can help and encourage each other, having been through similar situations. aj Bruce,

I am so sorry for what you and your wife are experiencing and hope my friend’s story didn’t make light of your situation. Trust me when I say I have been there as a PK and as a staff member. My dad “left”…in order to not cause conflict…from a church when I was 16 after have pastoring for 11 years full time. The rest of the staff “left” as well. It took him and my mom until last year, so 10ish years, to even step foot in another church. But he is now in a position where he knows he needs to be a pastor, and teach again, and is finding it difficult to have churches even take a glance at his resume when they see he hasn’t been in ministry for over ten years (vocationally). Sadly I know a few other pastors in situations similar to his.

In a former life, I should have left a staff position sooner but felt I needed to save the world so I stayed too long. After a particularly feisty meeting with my lead pastor, I was told “Your dreams are too big for (church name) so you should probably find a place that can handle them.”

Ouch.

I vowed never to work “in” a church again (never say never) and found myself in the same situation as you, wishing those who were living in sin while leading a church would be exposed. I wanted justice. I wanted the pain that it caused to be rectified because I know it was not a fair situation. And it sucks.

Sometimes we won’t see justice in our life time and sometimes we will. I’ll be praying for you and your wife. If there’s anything my husband or I can do feel free to email me at girlnamedanne[at]gmail[dot]com. Even if you’d like to contact my dad, I am sure you two can help and encourage each other, having been through similar situations.

aj

]]> By: Craig Groeschel http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26494 Craig Groeschel Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:46:08 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26494 Brian, Glad you like the book! Tim, Man-I'm sorry you feel hopeless. I cannot imagine how hard it would be not to have the authority to freely act. I'm praying for you tonight. Cliff, Enjoyed the rant. Bruce, You asked a great question: "How would you get (the wrong) people to leave in an established church? I have some ideas we can talk about in future posts. Maybe some of you have some feedback for Bruce. Dwight, Thanks for your wisdom. Anne, Freaky story! Kyle, I'm glad too! Brian, Glad you like the book!

Tim, Man-I’m sorry you feel hopeless. I cannot imagine how hard it would be not to have the authority to freely act. I’m praying for you tonight.

Cliff, Enjoyed the rant.

Bruce, You asked a great question: “How would you get (the wrong) people to leave in an established church? I have some ideas we can talk about in future posts. Maybe some of you have some feedback for Bruce.

Dwight, Thanks for your wisdom.

Anne, Freaky story!

Kyle, I’m glad too!

]]> By: Harold Cunningham http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26483 Harold Cunningham Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:36:27 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26483 A member who becomes antagonistic to the point where he/she refuses to submit to the gracious, healthy, loving accountability of the Body, has, in spirit, attempted to assume for themselves the prerogatives that belong to Christ (the Head of the Body) alone. In cases like that, the Body, at the very least, must acknowledge that the antagonist, in spirit, has already dissected themselves from the Body. If the Fellowship of believers, refuses to acknowledge it's own responsibility for preserving the health of the Body, then the Fellowship runs the risk of placing itself outside the will of God. While the Body would not be Biblically obligated to automatically remove such an antagonist from it's fellowship .... it must be prepared to take SOME redemptive action om behalf of the antagonist and itself. Sometimes, that means opening the "back-door" for the member-antagonist to be ushered outside the fellowship of believers, in hopes that he/she will miss the blessings of that fellowship to such a degree that they desire to come back into unity with the Body. refuted their commitment to Lordship of Christ and A member who becomes antagonistic to the point where he/she refuses to submit to the gracious, healthy, loving accountability of the Body, has, in spirit, attempted to assume for themselves the prerogatives that belong to Christ (the Head of the Body) alone. In cases like that, the Body, at the very least, must acknowledge that the antagonist, in spirit, has already dissected themselves from the Body. If the Fellowship of believers, refuses to acknowledge it’s own responsibility for preserving the health of the Body, then the Fellowship runs the risk of placing itself outside the will of God. While the Body would not be Biblically obligated to automatically remove such an antagonist from it’s fellowship …. it must be prepared to take SOME redemptive action om behalf of the antagonist and itself. Sometimes, that means opening the “back-door” for the member-antagonist to be ushered outside the fellowship of believers, in hopes that he/she will miss the blessings of that fellowship to such a degree that they desire to come back into unity with the Body.

refuted their commitment to Lordship of Christ and

]]> By: Kyle T. Panter http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26475 Kyle T. Panter Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:24:59 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26475 "It is commonly taught, if we aren’t growing, we’re either: (1) not reaching new people, or (2) not retaining those we have. Another possibility that’s rarely mentioned is (3) we’re not allowing people to gracefully exit our ministries. Many teach… “Close the back door!? I say… “Leave the back door cracked open!?" My wife and I left our home church 7 1/2 years ago. We wanted to stay, but God arranged for our departure against our wishes (job situation). People leave for various reasons. Some good, some bad. The task of church leadership is to prepare them to leave with a vision and heart to carry on the ministry elsewhere. Personnally, we left with sorrowed but peaceful hearts knowing God had something better in store for us. As He would have it, 16 months later, we were helping our former church plant a new and exciting campus in the city in which we were relocated. I thank God for a "back door cracked open!" “It is commonly taught, if we aren’t growing, we’re either:

(1) not reaching new people, or

(2) not retaining those we have.

Another possibility that’s rarely mentioned is

(3) we’re not allowing people to gracefully exit our ministries.

Many teach… “Close the back door!?
I say… “Leave the back door cracked open!?”

My wife and I left our home church 7 1/2 years ago. We wanted to stay, but God arranged for our departure against our wishes (job situation). People leave for various reasons. Some good, some bad. The task of church leadership is to prepare them to leave with a vision and heart to carry on the ministry elsewhere. Personnally, we left with sorrowed but peaceful hearts knowing God had something better in store for us. As He would have it, 16 months later, we were helping our former church plant a new and exciting campus in the city in which we were relocated. I thank God for a “back door cracked open!”

]]> By: riddle http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26472 riddle Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:21:52 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26472 A few random thoughts: I suppose keeping people from leaving the through a backdoor would essentially be akin to kidnapping right? Nobody want's to be kidnapped or held against their will. People don't want to be owned either. Building a church the just files people from the front door thru to the back door to build a church are only using the people they are called to reach to build a bigger organization. it's interesting to find a harmony in this. A few random thoughts:

I suppose keeping people from leaving the through a backdoor would essentially be akin to kidnapping right? Nobody want’s to be kidnapped or held against their will.

People don’t want to be owned either.

Building a church the just files people from the front door thru to the back door to build a church are only using the people they are called to reach to build a bigger organization.

it’s interesting to find a harmony in this.

]]> By: Bruce http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-26464 Bruce Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:10:02 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/07/16/leaving-the-church-part-1/#comment-26464 Anne, I know when my wife and I were lamenting over our situation and questioning God we found ourselves drawn to the Psalms and wishing what the Psalmist said about his enemies God would bring to fruition as well. We did wish harm on those that hurt us, but over time we no longer desired personal injury. Everytime I hear of another staff person having to resign from that church it grieves my spirit. When we left, the secretary resigned as well and the music / education minister was asked to leave and the mission pastor was asked to leave also. It hurts, and in my particular denomination there is no help for the pastor. The problem for many that go through such a situation is that in looking for a new church there is this glowing mark on your resume that you no longer pastoring or that you had a short tenure. I know that God is in control, but God uses people and often times people are not listening to God. I glad it worked out for your friend, but I pray that God does not have to work in other churches so that He can reign supreme. Anne,

I know when my wife and I were lamenting over our situation and questioning God we found ourselves drawn to the Psalms and wishing what the Psalmist said about his enemies God would bring to fruition as well. We did wish harm on those that hurt us, but over time we no longer desired personal injury. Everytime I hear of another staff person having to resign from that church it grieves my spirit. When we left, the secretary resigned as well and the music / education minister was asked to leave and the mission pastor was asked to leave also. It hurts, and in my particular denomination there is no help for the pastor. The problem for many that go through such a situation is that in looking for a new church there is this glowing mark on your resume that you no longer pastoring or that you had a short tenure. I know that God is in control, but God uses people and often times people are not listening to God. I glad it worked out for your friend, but I pray that God does not have to work in other churches so that He can reign supreme.

]]>