Leaving the Church (1 of 4)
Leave the Door Open!
For our ministries to grow, we have to have more people coming in the front than we have leaving through the back.
It is commonly taught, if we aren’t growing, we’re either:
(1) not reaching new people, or
(2) not retaining those we have.
Another possibility that’s rarely mentioned is
(3) we’re not allowing people to gracefully exit our ministries.
Many teach… “Close the back door!”
I say… “Leave the back door cracked open!”
Occasionally, there are some church members who need to leave for the ministry to move forward.
These people might be miserable. Maybe they hate change. Perhaps they care more about their own needs than the needs of others.
If someone is directly opposed to the direction God is leading your church, we should do our best to lead them to embrace the vision. If you’ve tried and tried and continue to fail, you may need to gently, lovingly help them find another church.
Instead of closing the back door, leave it cracked open!
This week we’ll talk about how to allow people to leave gracefully.
Please share anything from your experience that would be helpful.
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Craig, I’m sure you would agree that these are usually the people who aren’t going to quietly slip out that cracked back door, right?
So when you say “gently, lovingly help them find another church”, I’m assuming you’re against muzzles, hush money, and/or cattle prods.
Bryan, You gave me my first laugh on Monday morning!
We can talk more about that this week. (Thanks for the laugh.)
Chef and leader extraordinare Charlie Trotter wrote a book a few years ago on Leadership in the Restaurant Business. Great book and great applications for the church.
In it he talks about the principle “firing your customers” — in other words, he is selective about his customers. He serves a certain kind of food in a certain way at a certain price point and those things are non-negotiable. Trotter recognizes that his restaurant–despite winning many awards naming it the Best Restaurant in America–is not for everyone. There are lots of restaurants in Chicago… no one will starve.
I think this is a great principle for the church as well.
When people do make the decision to leave, I am in full support of them finding another place that they can fit in better.
Helping people grow in Christ is more important to me than an attendance number.
Oops…did I just say that out loud?
Craig,
Gina and I have unfortunately seen our fair share of friends get upset over one thing or another and leave for their own selfish reasons. I grieve for these people and pray God reveals their selfish motivations.
Recently very good friends of ours left because God called them. I believe that God used their time at Lifechurch.tv to prepare them for the task they face at the ministry they now participate in. So I would say that another benefit of leaving the door cracked is when God is ready to send people out they don’t feel trapped.
Leaving well…
Ive thought about adding this to our membership covenant; “if you feel you must leave here are some ways to leave well…”
How do you guys feel about calling peoples previous pastors to find out why they have left and are now coming to your church?
A Slap in the Face as You Leave
This past week, we did Disney. My wife set us up to do a time share. You get a 90 minute spiel and free tickets. First, let me tell you its not worth it unless you are wanting a timeshare.
Couple of quick hits:
Brett… i would never call a person’s previous pastor without premission and awareness of the person involved. If they don’t give you permission, you will have to decide if you trust them or not. But if you go “behind their back” and they find out, you will destroy your relational trust with that person.
As for the whole concept of “helping people find another church”… I see it as no different than “moving” people within a church from one ministry to another. It is a very hard thing to do. But if you are committed to loving that person, have their needs before your own needs or desires, then I believe God will bless. If the individual resists, and will not submit or develops a bad attitude, that is a sin issue and should be dealt with differently. Also, if the person is a trouble maker in the first place, then “helping them find a new home” is not the right approach as you will be sending someone with a sin problem on to another pastor - what is right about that?
To come back to a point i just made, you must have the person’s needs foremost in your mind. If you are doing this for self-serving reasons, I do not believe God will bless in the long run. We must have a clear distinction between a sin problem and a “family” issue…
As a final comment, I think it is interested how some pastors are willing to do this to staff, but not to board members or congregation members…. too many staff are being hurt in today’s churches by boards and senior pastor’s who are more concerned about keeping the back door tight, than they are about caring for their staff…
Nuff for now…
Love your book Craig
Brett and Craig
I think that is a great idea to introduce leaving well into the membership covnenant. We have verbalized how to leave at our “membership” Life Group but never put into the convenants. This mentality is not only refreshing to church leadership but to the people as well knowing there is an “out” and it is ok if they leave. It almost makes them more inclined to stay. We decided 2 years ago when we launched Shoreline, that we would embrace the fact that some people are going to leave and some people will need to leave and we decided before hand that we would not be hurt, that we would love them on their way out.
It is a refreshing philosophy compared to the “keep them at any cost and then ostracize them when they do leave” philosophy of the past.
Brian,
Yeah, I should have indicated that permission should be given before contact is made. Good call. I am most interested to know if anyone actually does get permission and call previous pastors.
Help me out here….How is this supported biblically?
When others are changing the very fabric of the church and not to the better we have an obligation to the church to have them leave . (1st Corinthians 5) We have one in ours that has been left to fester now he has a following , enough to virtually split the church . These must be seen when it starts and confronted with then, not left alone.
I think the gentle part is a huge piece of this puzzle. We have to keep in mind that although some people do leave for “selfish” reasons (and don’t leave quietly), it is still our responsibility as pastors and the Body to help them along graciously.
By communicating our own (enter sarcastic comments and rolling eyes here) thoughts and/or feelings with these especially difficult people, or even sharing them quietly with other staff or leaders, it breaks down the core DNA of the Church: Unity.
Growing up a PK, being on church staff…I have been guilty of not being on the loving/gentle side of people leaving. But once I was the one leaving, and the situation wasn’t handled so gracefully, it hit me how important it is to encourage someone through that transition as Christ would, knowing something better is waiting for them in another place.
It’s hard to do…I am a very prideful person
And it is so easy to be petty about this kind of stuff.
We too have embraced this type of philosophy, and it seems to have worked well for us as we change and reinvent who we are as a church. The only thing that is hard is looking back and questioning whether it was as good for the leavers as well. Ultimately it is up to them to come to grips with who they are and where they have been called to grow and serve - finding the best fit sometimes takes work, humility, and patience.
I also agree that this, like moving people out of and into ministry serving roles, quite possibly is the hardest thing to do within a church. I am very excited to see where this conversation goes. I am so ready to learn!
Lastly, this is an interesting site called Letters from Leavers ,for another perspective.
This is my 3rd church in less than 6 years. I have spent many sleepless, prayerful, and troublesome nights trying to figure out what to do about people who just love to cause trouble. Trust me, I’ve blamed myself a lot also. In short, my denomination privately says, those people should leave that are against moving the church forward. But then publicly when having to deal with it they say “it’s best to move the Pastor. Some churches have resisted change for 30-40 years (trust me I have pastored 2 of them). I agree with you that some people need to leave, but when you are not fully given the authority and the support to deal with the problem, you are hopeless.
And yet another option is that these people are simply inspired to execute their God given destiny at another place.
This is ideal. However so many people leave in bitterness instead.
I agree that some people need to leave a church for the sanity and sanctitiy of all those involved. The problem is that these people still need to grow up in Christ. If they don’t, then they end up still giving Christianity a bad name, which is worse than if they gave a single church a bad name. While they may need to leave a church, what can we do to encourage growth out of their destructive habits?
all about Christ,
David
I trade people with other pastor’s, they take 3 extra grace required folks for 2 leaders and a pick to be named later…
In truth, we want to close the back door when it comes to new believers, we want to see them come in and become fully devoted followers of Christ, but unfortunately we have to open the back door wide for some disgruntled believers.
I have been the lead pastor where I am for the last 3 1/2 years in and in that time as I have tried to advance a proactive vision for growing up and reaching out, I have upset more than a few Christian who were happy with the status quo. Some have stormed out like little kids throwing a fit, some sneak out while no one is looking, but other have been gracious enough and mature enough to say they can’t be a part of where the church is going.
Everyone that has left has been for the best, I view it as the Father pruning the branches so that they can grow. And as a result we have seen some growth, but it seems that more weeds keep cropping up.
I recently had someone tell me that a real pastor would never tell someone they should find another church. It is a constant battle, but just like Jesus, we are here for the sick, and if we keep our focus on reaching the lost we will continue to upset a lot of “Christians.”
I’m not sure if any of you saw Nightline a couple of weeks back when the had Rick Warren on, they were looking at a church that had made the transition from traditional to being purpose driven and they had interview a guy who left that church because there wasn’t anything there for him any more. The church he left is now growing and reaching people left and right, but he is upset because they weren’t singing his favorite hymns anymore. I’m sure I’m not alone, but that kind Christian annoys me.
Sorry I got on a little bit of a rant there…….
It is not a question of asking these individuals to leave, the question is how do you do so? Even the most loving encouragment may not be enough. Trust me I know as I have been involved in two churches that have allowed the “frozen chosen” to control things. I empathize with Tim as I have pastored two churches with the similar problems and now am out of the pastorate because of them. When you have individuals that are in direct opposition to the leadership and the vision of reaching the community for Christ how can you loving encourage the opposition to find another place to minister? Normally the opposition has been in the church for years and have a vested interest in the church as well as a following. More times than not they will not leave, but they will withold their money and attack the leadership with barbs of criticism as they mount the opposition. I would be curious as to how you get such individuals to leave especially in an established church?
Tim & Bruce,
I have had much the same experience just recently. The problem is that the back door mentality is pervasive among most congregations just as it is with pastors. Someone leaving would be the opposite of the ideal to most of them and so they will support those folks even to the point of asking the pastor or staff member to leave (they didn’t in my case, but it became impossible to minister to them because of it). Pastors are deemed dispensable (and indestructible) if it means keeping the body together.
The problem is that the body is still avoiding a problem. It is made up of many parts - arms reaching, hands healing, feet going (from a great Casting Crowns song I know), but it also has other parts - like an appendix. Not useful and sometimes ready to rupture and possibly make you sick or worse.
I struggle with this myself. I am the personality type that wants everyone to be happy and get along and not be angry (the peacemaker, I suppose). It can get to the point where you tell yourself that if you are the cause of someone not worshiping that you need to be the one to get out of the way.
To top it off, the church I am interviewing with now has already asked for detailed reason as to why I am no longer serving at the last church where I was on staff (Sigh)
In my early days I use to resist people leaving. But then it dawned on me that if God is leading them else where I’m a fool to get in their way. If they are leaving and God has not leading them to do so and they are leaving for the wrong reason then it is God’s problem not mine. He will discipline them for their disobedience. If it try to get them to say and it is God’s will then I am the one working against what God’s Will and that has disaster written all over it. So by blessing them and not making them feel like sinners when they leave, it’s a win win.
Amen, brother!
Agape,
steve
Bruce - this sounds horrible, but a true story, I repeat from first hand (well, second hand) experience.
My friend was called to lead worship at a specific church. He KNEW it was supposed to happen; the pastor knew, but in some silly bylaw he had to have X% of congregational approval and he could never get it because a certain number of people were resisting the change.
He went back THREE TIMES and these people who didn’t want him, or the change he would bring kept voting no.
Within a week, two died; the next week, one died.
He was voted in later on that month and is actually now their lead pastor and doing really great things in the area (which recently got flooded).
TERRIBLE…but interesting, eh?
Anne,
I guess that shows how dangerous it is to put own wants in front of what God is asking us to do.
(noted disclaimer…:ahem::) *by no means do I support the murder and/or rejoicing of deaths of anyone…
There are many parts to the body of Christ…….arms, hands, feet, and some are just plain ‘assholes’.
Anne,
I know when my wife and I were lamenting over our situation and questioning God we found ourselves drawn to the Psalms and wishing what the Psalmist said about his enemies God would bring to fruition as well. We did wish harm on those that hurt us, but over time we no longer desired personal injury. Everytime I hear of another staff person having to resign from that church it grieves my spirit. When we left, the secretary resigned as well and the music / education minister was asked to leave and the mission pastor was asked to leave also. It hurts, and in my particular denomination there is no help for the pastor. The problem for many that go through such a situation is that in looking for a new church there is this glowing mark on your resume that you no longer pastoring or that you had a short tenure. I know that God is in control, but God uses people and often times people are not listening to God. I glad it worked out for your friend, but I pray that God does not have to work in other churches so that He can reign supreme.
A few random thoughts:
I suppose keeping people from leaving the through a backdoor would essentially be akin to kidnapping right? Nobody want’s to be kidnapped or held against their will.
People don’t want to be owned either.
Building a church the just files people from the front door thru to the back door to build a church are only using the people they are called to reach to build a bigger organization.
it’s interesting to find a harmony in this.
“It is commonly taught, if we aren’t growing, we’re either:
(1) not reaching new people, or
(2) not retaining those we have.
Another possibility that’s rarely mentioned is
(3) we’re not allowing people to gracefully exit our ministries.
Many teach… “Close the back door!?
I say… “Leave the back door cracked open!?”
My wife and I left our home church 7 1/2 years ago. We wanted to stay, but God arranged for our departure against our wishes (job situation). People leave for various reasons. Some good, some bad. The task of church leadership is to prepare them to leave with a vision and heart to carry on the ministry elsewhere. Personnally, we left with sorrowed but peaceful hearts knowing God had something better in store for us. As He would have it, 16 months later, we were helping our former church plant a new and exciting campus in the city in which we were relocated. I thank God for a “back door cracked open!”
A member who becomes antagonistic to the point where he/she refuses to submit to the gracious, healthy, loving accountability of the Body, has, in spirit, attempted to assume for themselves the prerogatives that belong to Christ (the Head of the Body) alone. In cases like that, the Body, at the very least, must acknowledge that the antagonist, in spirit, has already dissected themselves from the Body. If the Fellowship of believers, refuses to acknowledge it’s own responsibility for preserving the health of the Body, then the Fellowship runs the risk of placing itself outside the will of God. While the Body would not be Biblically obligated to automatically remove such an antagonist from it’s fellowship …. it must be prepared to take SOME redemptive action om behalf of the antagonist and itself. Sometimes, that means opening the “back-door” for the member-antagonist to be ushered outside the fellowship of believers, in hopes that he/she will miss the blessings of that fellowship to such a degree that they desire to come back into unity with the Body.
refuted their commitment to Lordship of Christ and
Brian, Glad you like the book!
Tim, Man-I’m sorry you feel hopeless. I cannot imagine how hard it would be not to have the authority to freely act. I’m praying for you tonight.
Cliff, Enjoyed the rant.
Bruce, You asked a great question: “How would you get (the wrong) people to leave in an established church? I have some ideas we can talk about in future posts. Maybe some of you have some feedback for Bruce.
Dwight, Thanks for your wisdom.
Anne, Freaky story!
Kyle, I’m glad too!
Bruce,
I am so sorry for what you and your wife are experiencing and hope my friend’s story didn’t make light of your situation. Trust me when I say I have been there as a PK and as a staff member. My dad “left”…in order to not cause conflict…from a church when I was 16 after have pastoring for 11 years full time. The rest of the staff “left” as well. It took him and my mom until last year, so 10ish years, to even step foot in another church. But he is now in a position where he knows he needs to be a pastor, and teach again, and is finding it difficult to have churches even take a glance at his resume when they see he hasn’t been in ministry for over ten years (vocationally). Sadly I know a few other pastors in situations similar to his.
In a former life, I should have left a staff position sooner but felt I needed to save the world so I stayed too long. After a particularly feisty meeting with my lead pastor, I was told “Your dreams are too big for (church name) so you should probably find a place that can handle them.”
Ouch.
I vowed never to work “in” a church again (never say never) and found myself in the same situation as you, wishing those who were living in sin while leading a church would be exposed. I wanted justice. I wanted the pain that it caused to be rectified because I know it was not a fair situation. And it sucks.
Sometimes we won’t see justice in our life time and sometimes we will. I’ll be praying for you and your wife. If there’s anything my husband or I can do feel free to email me at girlnamedanne[at]gmail[dot]com. Even if you’d like to contact my dad, I am sure you two can help and encourage each other, having been through similar situations.
aj
You know, I agree, if we can’t get people on our vision, then we should help them find a place they “fit in.” Similar to that “back door” they issued Jesus out of to the edge of a cliff so they could stone him.
No I agree, a trouble maker can ruin the movement of the spirit. Others though, may only be challenging the status quo.
“Pursue life! Follow me!” - Jesus
In the words of the great theologian Sting,
If you love somebody
If you love someone, set them free
Set them free
Set them free
Set them free
You cant control an independent heart
Cant tear the one you love apart
Forever conditioned to believe that we cant live
We cant live here and be happy with less
So many riches
So many souls
With everything we see that we want to possess
Craig
A well known church leader in the UK says that one of the most important facts he had to come to terms with was: “People come and people go.” He used to sit and do leaving interviews with people leaving. He decided to change this for a few reasons.
1. People leaving are usually looking to unload their baggage.
2. You are giving them what they want - attention
3. Its better to learn whats good and keeping the vast majority who are committed, growing and serving the church.
I will never forget something that happened to me some 14 years ago. I was new on staff at the church I was then serving, having had to relocate from a toxic staff situation for my own emotional survival (and that of my family). I had been on the new field for about 6 months when my pastor called me into his office to let me know that a family with strong involvement in my secondary area of ministry responsibility (combination position) and marginal involvement in my primary had let him know that they planned to find another church in our community. One of their main areas of dissatisfaction was in my secondary responsibility area (children’s ministry).
What my pastor said after he told me of their leaving floored me. I braced for impact when he told me that I had not yet known him long enough to know that he was “not a nose-wiper.” He said that when people came to him with concerns (as this family obviously had), he weighed carefully what they said and took action to address the concern if he felt it necessary. “If I’ve done all I feel I can and should do to address their concerns and they’re still dissatisfied, then they go with my blessing. There is no competition in the Kingdom. I’d rather have them happily, actively serving Christ in another fellowship in our community than to have them unhappy and continuing to be involved in this one. I think you’re doing a fine job. Keep up the good work.”
I will NEVER forget him for that. That would never have happened in my previous ministry situation. In that situation, the squeaky wheels got greased even if they were squeaking because they were trying to roll in the wrong direction.
The bottom line: Yes, sometimes people do need to find another church for their benefit and for the benefit of the Kingdom. The reality: it rarely happens, and only a small percentage of those who do relocate do it well.
“I vowed never to work “in? a church again (never say never) and found myself in the same situation as you, wishing those who were living in sin while leading a church would be exposed. I wanted justice. I wanted the pain that it caused to be rectified because I know it was not a fair situation. And it sucks.”
Thanks Anne. I needed that. Same situation (sorta) got pushed out the back door 20 years ago and only in the last three years had the guts to go back in for my daughter’s sake. I just didn’t realize it was going to be a Reform Temple (lol!)
Hang in there gang. There’s an old Jewish teaching: life is meant to be challenging. Those who aren’t being forced to constantly improve themselves by those set challenges are the ones warming the bench. Last I checked JC didn’t ride a bench. Jews have their problems with evangelical Christianity, but have a ton of respect for evangelical Christians.
I’ve actually been the person who both needed to leave and stay at the same time. I thought my work was not yet through. The head pastor said this to me knowing my torn heart. “Jan, it’s ok for you to leave if you want to or if you think you need to. You have not only my permission, but my blessing as well. It will be different without you, and difficult as well, but God will use you wherever and whatever you decide when you seek Him with your whole heart.”
I must tell you, tht his giving me permission has helped in counsel to “others” of nearly each type of individual mentioned in prior posts.
One charter member couple who were particularly bitter decided to ‘wait’ out the founding pastor. To their suprise, he was granted another 15yrs! They eventually calmed down when they realized they were NOT in control of anyone or anything!
I am one who believes that some people are only with you for a season, and season change. You will drive yourself crazier, trying simply to close the back door. I agree, leave it cracked, because we need a breeze.
God has spoken to me through all of you, thanks. I had our pianist (very talented one) with one-foot out of the church. He is not willing to be part of the vision even though he agrees with it. Last week, he talked to the praise and worship ministry about his decision to leave, but has not tell us when. I didn’t want him to leave, but at the same time he was causing us a great deal of setbacks. I will bless his departure now and kiss him good-bye.
Pastor Felix.
Most folks deserve the right hand of fellowship.
Some should receive a subsequent left foot of fellowship.
-Jim
Thank you all for sharing the pain in your hearts. I am glad Jesus paved the pain path for us. After 12 years of full time ministry I found myself in a divorce situation. Pariah! Am now serving a smaller church as a bivocational pastor and have found God is using all my learned skills of a full time pastor in ways unimaginable. Yet the conflict is still present no matter the size of church because it is filled with sinners. Thank God for that. We wouldn’t have jobs otherwise.
Blessings to you all,
Pastor Charles
PS.. If the back door isn’t cracked try using the window. Sometimes it is more satisfying!
[...] This guy has an interesting series of posts on when it’s time to find (or encourage someone else to find) a new church. (via CMS) [...]
the problem seems to find it’s beginning in your assumptions “For our ministries to grow, we have to have more people coming in the front than we have leaving through the back.”
For “OUR” ministries? There is an unhealthy spirit of ownership. It manifest it’s self in authority demands, controlled environments, and division. There is one Church, one Body, one Bride! What is needed is not ownership or lordship but a spirit of service, a spirit of fatherhood.
It breaks my heart to see so many cheerfully and mockingly suggest a lamb find a new shepherd. Paul asks “is Christ divided?” how dare we live so smugly? How dare we suggest the solution to the problems of “OUR” ministry find their solution in the division of the body of Christ!
Craig
Interesting approach to church growth. I am a new pastor to a wounded church. I have lots of seats to fill from people who have left hurt. I have been looking over the congregation with this concept in mind even before I ran into your concept. I am moving cautiously as I don’t want to additionally hurt others but moving in the direction of “freedom to visit other churches in the area”. Thanks for the encouragement to allow people to leave gracefully and positively.
greetings and blessing in name of lord jesus we are working for jesus christ.god bless u all