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Oops 3 (of 4): Let My People Go
Mistake 3. I had always been taught to “close the back door.” In other words, make sure you work hard not just to “attract” people to the church, but to “retain” them. While at some levels this is good advice, I occasionally wrongly applied it.
I would do whatever I could to keep people from leaving. The truth is, sometimes it’s better to allow—even help—people leave.
I’ve learned:
- Miserable people rarely give or serve.
- Miserable people generally make others miserable.
- One person can hinder forward movement.
- Trying to keep the wrong person can cause you to do the wrong things.
Sometimes it’s better to sincerely help someone find a better place to serve God. (I’ll write much more on this subject in upcoming weeks.)
What have you learned about working to keep people that don’t want to (or shouldn’t) stay?
Visit 
Man! Can I relate to this this week! I have just come out of one of these learning experiences. My mistake in the whole thing was not recognizing the damage that can happen when people with a different vision come into our church. If given a foothold it can be devastating. Lesson learned!
I have learned to look for fruit that people are bearing. If they are bearing good fruit that lines up with our mission, great! If their fruit is division, confusion, or gossip those things are not from God and must be dealt with immediately.
As pastors we have to protect our people and our mission at all costs. Not everyone who comes in our churches gets behind our mission. I love an idea I came back from a planters conference with…be mean with the vision.
When we are laser focused and clear on our mission it does 2 things: It will weed out those who arent behind the mission because they know where leadership stands firm. And it also helps those in the church defuse people who would come in to hijack the mission. If our attenders arent clear on what the mission is they can be swayed by just about anybody.
Anyway, thats what i have learned in the last couple of (long) weeks!
Craig, cant wait to hear more from you on this!
Brett,
Sorry you’ve been learning those lessons the hard way! I think most of us do! I pray you recover quickly!
Craig,
I was there a couple of months ago. I had a couple that called, complained and grumbled to others every week for a while. I listened to them tried explain my view, but nothing helped - they wanted their way. When they saw that I was resolute, I got the final call that they were leaving…she also gave me the “everyone else is upset about this too!” line. I was very nice, prayed with her, and gave her some suggestions on another church to check out. I’ve had some interaction with the family since and everything is fine. I guess the moral of the story is - let them go, but don’t be a jerk.
By the way…everyone else was very happy with what we do! Since their departure, we have grown and the people she complained to have made and amazing shift in their attitude!
I have found that if you aren’t happy with someone, they probably aren’t happy with you (or your organization) either. Helping them find a better place to serve is a win-win.
Patrick Lencioni has a great book that touches on this subject, as well as the other topics you are touching on this week, called The Four Obsessions of an Extraordinary Executive.
I think some where we taught that as pastors we are to care for everyone, love everyone, cater to everyone, after all what would Jesus do? But the reality is you can’t make everyone happy, and as we step out to do a great work for God many people aren’t up for the journey.
I am facing that struggle now. I have workers who are fighting the vision because it doesn’t jive with their church background, I have some folks that want things to be the way they were 20 years ago, and in the last 3 years I have had 20 people leave the church, now that may not seem like a lot but when you only run 100, it is a big hit, especially when they are people influence, and we good tithers, hard hurdles to overcome.
But I have to remind myself HE is the vine, we are the branches and The Father is the gardener who has to do some trimming so we can be healthy and growing. I am not out of the woods yet, and probably never will be, because as you grow you just get to do it all over again. I’ve heard Rick Warren say that Saddleback looses 100’s every year, but gains 1000’s, so we soldier on and try to hold fast. But sometimes it is hard, when you see friends walk out the door it makes you question yourself.
Ryan and Scott,
Thanks for the great comments.
Cliff,
Man, I can relate when the church is losing people that are friends. It does make you question yourself. I pray God sustains you and that you can remain friends with those leaving.
I have to agree with Ryan. There are times when you need to cut someone loose, but don’t be a jerk about it. I hate the term long hellos and short goodbyes. I see the importance in the statement, but disagree with totally cutting a person loose with no direction on where they might best suit the Kingdom in service. Some pastors, not all, get on a power trip thinking they keep who they want and cut who they don’t because they may disagree with them. One thing as a pastor that I can’t tolerate is a pastor who only likes those that agree with them. There’s a difference between someone who disagrees because they see another side and someone that just wants to cause trouble. Not all people that disagree with the vision or direction want to cause trouble and we as pastors should at the very least listen to them with an open mind before telling them this isn’t the place for them. And no, it’s not their vision and we should keep the course if that’s the vision God gave us, but God does speak to others and listening, not always doing, might be a good step in the right direction.
I have certainly seen this in my own life. It is almost impossible to perform at 100% perfect when you don’t love what you are doing.
I see it with my college friends a lot. They always planned on being a this or that major, all their professors would be disappointed with them if they changed, their parent’s wouldn’t understand. But when it comes right down to it they will never be happy or successful until they move on, and a good professor will help them to find their right place whether it’s in their field or not.
It’s not about being a this or that major, or serving God this or that way, it’s just about getting an education and serving God whatever way he’s called you to do both.
I dont mind people who need to leave leaving as long as they ‘leave well’. Anyone have any suggestions for people to ‘leave well’ if they arent happy? What does that look like?
Brett,
I just reinforce the mission/vision/values of the church. If they can’t buy-in or choose to opt-out I look to see if the problem is me by asking others, if it is not me I talk to them see what the REAL source of the issue is, see what they would want and direct them to a worship environment that might suit them. I never apologize for who God has called us to be, but I never close the door completely or totally cut them off…who knows, they may be back…
It all comes back to mission/vision/values!
A friend went in view of a call and received 101 votes for and 3 against. He eventually found out who the 3 votes against were and decided the first year would be spent trying to please the three ‘enemies’ if you will.
He was highly sucessful, all three loved and adored him. Unfortunately the next year when the vote to renew his contract came up the vote was 3 for and 101 against. This is ficticious, but you get the point.
Never compromise what God has called you to be and do. Where would we be if Jesus decided to give in to Judas.
Ever considered a miserable people section? This way everyone who doesn’t like the volume, the temperature, and the color of the carpet could all sit together and discuss their objections. They wouldn’t have to work the phones as much. It could be close to the back with large arrows pointing to the “back door”.
Oh yeah, and you could put the crying babies one row in front of them. Perfect!
I’ve heard Ed Young refer to these as “…’I-chair’–whoops–I mean, ‘high chair’ people…” Basically, they’re spiritual babies crying constantly to be fed and to have their way. He even jokes that pastors know who these people are, and they pass them around, sending them to each other’s churches, even “trading” them like baseball cards. Funny stuff.
Two weeks ago, Rick Warren was featured on a “Nightline” segment (now on their website) about changing churches alienating their faithful. They interviewed one 60-ish, retired minister who had attended his church for 20-something years… until it caught the purpose-driven vision. He had left unhappy, and he told the interviewer, “First they changed the music… Eventually, there just wasn’t anything there for us anymore.” My wife Kendra cried.
Father, please help us never forget Your Son’s words: “It’s not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.”
God shows us through life what can be applied to church situations. Let me explain.
I was a teacher of English in a private school. It was so obvious for the staff or management that if a student did not like our school he should leave and find another school. It is so obvious with the school situation, and yet it is only with this post that I understood it about the church. I need to observe my life more and then apply it to church situations. I believe God gives us more tangible experiences to apply them to more spiritual experiences.
Thanks Craig. It’s quite an eye-opener.
Lately, I have been having several conversations with people that want to leave the church where I work at, attend, and serve. When discussing their departure, I try keep the conversation positive. In other words, I don’t allow the conversation be about all that is wrong with the church. Instead, I direct the conversation to be about them finding a great church where they can plug in and make difference for God’s kingdom. I also tell them that our church isn’t for everyone, etc. Because ultimately, if someone is leaving out of bitterness or criticism, they will fall into the same pattern at the church they are moving to. And I find that so sad. Usually this works, it keeps them from going down a path of criticism (at least in front of me :)) and hopefully points them to a more healthy way of leaving the church they are currently attending.
Carrie,
Thanks for the positive comment and leadership!
Just a few questions.
What if you’re the only church in 1000km of the area?
Also, What if you’re in the shoes of the one wanting to leave? Honestly speaking, I feel out of place in my church a bit… but I feel really guilty thinking about leaving. Grounds? I’d say I don’t think the teaching is feeding me well - I’d rather go to life church online :/
Lastly, at the very core, isn’t the mission of every church lined up with the great commission? If so, why are there problems?
Finally, sorry to bug everyone… I might just pick up this info in Craig’s upcoming detailed coverage of this
Suraj asked some good questions. Can any of you offer some wisdom?
Suraj,
I completely understand being in the shoes of the dissatisfied. And I am also a person who loves their rut. It’s my rut, I made it myself, I am comfortable there! It’s hard to leave your comfort zone.
Why is there problems in church if they are all pointed towards the same goal? I think there are two different reasons, that actually stem from the same root.
1) Churches are composed of people. Highly flawed sinners with much narrower perspectives than God has. Even the clearest communication from Him is filtered by our own perspectives.
2) Churches are composed of people. People who tend to spend much of their time focused on their own needs and wants, not His. More often than not, people “shop” for a church the same way the would for shoes. “Do they fit me? Are they comfortable? Do they make me look good?” The questions more people should ask are “How can I fit myself here? How can I make others comfortable? How can I contribute?”
Craig,
I have felt like that broken egg….emotionally, mentally, psychologically, and spritually after trying to keep the wrong people.
Buddy
I have found that in most cases those persons who do not want to be with U will leave and it is best. It is always best for people to be where they can serve Jesus and be happy about that service.
P
Suraj,
Great questions brother. Perhaps you can have a win-win. Why not go to Lifechurch online, get fed there, and then go to your local church and feed others. You have much to offer the Lord in serving others!
All others,
This topic is right along the lines of the attitude, “I didn’t get anything out of church today.” To that, I’d like to share a story. A friend of mine had a son who went to a birthday party. When he got home his dad asked how the party went. His son replied, “Terrible. I got nothing.”
That is precisely the attitude many of our members have. But it is our job to remind them, It ain’t their party!
Suzannne and Ray,
Thanks for your help for Suraj.
Buddy,
I know what you mean. I hope you’re doing great!
Suraj,
What Suzanne said was very true, a church that has every single position filled with an imperfect person, from the senior pastor down to the newest guest.
But what other plan does God have for the church?
Besides people who narrow in their worldview, from the top to the bottom, vision leaks. Church leaders generally feel that they are doing a great job if they communicate a vision a couple times a month or even year. Vision has to be cast in many ways and many times each week to keep the focus on Jesus’ heart to reach people.
Hi again,
Thanks for all the answers and help!
I think I’m going to go for the win-win option =]
The idea about vision still bugs me a bit - It’s something that drives us and churches, but ultimately it’s still glorifying God and directed towards the great commission… I’ll think on this more, and pray for wisdom =].
Also, regarding shopping for churches, it makes sense that we shouldn’t do this. But sometimes it’s hard for you to do something and fit yourself in. For example say you go to a ritualistic Catholic church for a few years, never knowing about salvation, one day you find out about it and you’re filled with joy and passion - I’d say it’d be hard to stay and change the church.
Additionally, I think arkalmighty.com is a GREAT IDEA to help members serve other members, and facilitates this for still shy people like me!
God Bless ‘_^
I wish the pastor at the church I just resigned from had read this post. He tried so hard to keep two people who were out of step and unwilling to allow the church to try things that he has ended up alienating many more by taking several very drastic steps to try and appease them.
Folks who are adverse to change often end up being the squeaky wheels
A painful experience to be sure, but hopefully one we all learn from going forward.
Suraj,
I think the WIN-WIN is a great plan. I agree on the church shopping. However, there are people who (1) do not want to be challenged (2) are spiritually immature and broken & will “take my ball and go home” (3) just don’t want to make a commitment & run when they feel vulnerable. BUT, I do believe you are dead-on with your example. Bottom-line: if you are not being fed (challenged) - you are at risk of dying. I would not stay in a church serving leftovers. It is hard for pastors to hear this but you cannot blame members for church hopping, shopping or dropping if you are not stirring up the gift inside of you and serving up life changing meals! Suraj, I would challenge you to check your motives in scripture - make sure it is not a ’season’ or emotional decision you will later regret.
Guilt? I hate to check you against the board here but if you have something to feel guilty about then….. Admit It, Quit It, and Forget It.
Again, I truly believe (having been in a similar spot) you need to search the Bible and check every thought, imagination and emotion. You will find such freedom and peace. **If God releases you - He releases you. Period. Don’t worry about what people are going to say! I adopted this for my life: If what people say about me is true - I MUST CHANGE not matter HOW MAD I AM… they are right! If what they say is not true…shake the dust off because you will wear yourself out trying to correct gossip.
About the Great Commission: Yes that is the mission for ALL of us but it does not mean all churches truly pursue that mission - and they do not even know it. I am a HUGE fan of renewing/restating the vision every 30-40 days (Nehemiah did this). The vision remains fresh, simple, a compass, mark, and keeps everyone accountable. I like SIMPLE and CLEAR to the point visions. So on that point of VISION. God gives a VISION (plan, purpose, road map) to the leader of a church or any organization. That CEO is held accountable for the execution or failure of that vision. Can a church/org have more than ONE vision? I do not believe this can be true. Well they can but it will be average, teetering on failure. I have always shared this with my staff (in ministry, now in business and will when we return to ministry soon) “More than ONE vision is diVISION and Jesus said a house divided against itself will not stand.” I keep this in mind when presented with opportunities in my church: Is this going to line-up with Jim’s vision?” My pastor’s vision does not limit my ability to impact and/or play a role in seeing it come to pass or even speaking up when I do not agree with something. It does prevent diVISION… and satan loves to divide. Christians have executed some of the best COUPS ever!
On that note (and my final note - sorry for the long post Craig): You asked why there are problems…
People are People and we can be dumb animals (but I kinda like that)! Jesus spoke of the Two Greats @ The Great Commandment: Love the Lord your God… and love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:37-40) The ‘problem’ comes when satan sows the spirit of offense (getting mad you parked in my spot) and we take the hook and run. Satan’s ultimate goal is not to mess up your friendships - it is to mess up your relationship with God. To take our attention away from the only infallible One in the bunch! If he can get us focussed, fighting, etc. on each other — he knows we will not be sharp in our Love and Pursuit for all of God because we are busy trying to “be right”. Satan wants to seperate us from our Lord! He knows that choas is contagious (check next time you’re in the check out). I love to see Christians get the A-HA! moment on offense and Enough is Enough and too much is NASTY! I vote for peace.
I know that was long but hope it helped some. I have worked with many ministers and members who do not get this point: It can all be found in scripture: If you are not growing you are dying, More than ONE vision is diVISION.., and the keys to living life together. If we are frustrated that so many miss the Black, Red and White - guess how Jesus must feel! Always keep in mind you cannot blame God for how His kids behave! ((On the blog: I agree Craig! Sometimes you need a Gideon revival…reduce the troops!!))
Make Hell Nervous!
Jonathan
Doing Great Craig!…I pray you are as well! My family and I are on vaction in Maine and we are all PUMPED about visting LifeChurch.tv online campus tomorrow for the first time! I’ll let you know their feedback.
By the way the Jonah thing was off the hook!
Buddy
Such a great post! This made me think about what my Pastor said about a month ago. As he was welcoming a huge group of new members, he blatantly said it:
“If you are going to hinder where this church is going and keep us from moving forward, thanks for coming but please don’t come again.”
Then the church stood in aggreance.
There is a relatively old management book called “Critical Chain” that has insight into this subject. It basically says that your organization is only as strong as its weakest link. However, our nature as leaders is to focus and spend more time with the strongest or most like minded. For most of us, it is just more fun. It is usually not fun to spend time with the weakest link, but in reality our organization depends on it.
It makes me think about a verse in Luke 11 where Jesus said, “Woe to you, the lawyers also! For you load men with oppressive burdens hard to bear, and you do not personally [even gently] touch the burdens with one of your fingers.”
His yoke will be light, but sometimes our visions and missions are heavy.
Even Jesus’ own disciples were not in-line with His vision – 1 turned Him over to the authorities for money, all denied Him at one point or another, they didn’t have the faith to perform the miracles He gave them the authority to do…they wanted Him to be king and rule the earth (not die). What if Jesus gave them the boot? Where would the church be today? He wouldn’t have had the time to train a new set of people every time one went against His vision….NO. He LOVED them and continued to redirect them and train them in the way they should go. He was so kind and loving….that even at the cross He said, “Forgive them for they know not what they do.�
Isn’t the greatest commandment is love God and love others as yourself? Or did it say “love God, your vision and people?� If we do not love people, we don’t understand His mission and vision.
The church is the body - it is the people (good, bad or ugly), not the institution. When leaders learn to love through these things, we will have serious FRUIT – every non-believer will want to taste it! Otherwise, what sets us apart from the world?
My experience is exactly what you’re saying Craig. All those points are very relevant to today’s church. I found that my mission is to build the kind of church that I feel God has called me to build and not to compromise for a few people who are dragging the chain.
We did this a couple of years ago when moving into the things of the Spirit. We (my wife and I) decided that we weren’t going to compromise so we set the course and allowed people to leave. And they did. We had faith that God would honour us for honouring Him and His direction. And He has. We’ve really seen some strong growth recently but if we’d stayed in limbo-mode our church would probably be lost in the indecision by now.
Paul Scanlon wrote a brilliant article on this called Laws of Attachment. Here’s a couple of excerpts for you:
‘Everything is attached to something. Nothing exists in a vacuum and no living thing survives in isolation for very long. ‘
‘The strategy of the devil, from the beginning, has been to entice people into detached living. To get people and creation alike to separate from their God ordained attachments.’
‘Many thousands of God’s people across the world are also restless wanderers, because they have severed their God ordained attachments with people, churches and places.’
‘This promise of flourishing growth and productivity belongs exclusively to those who are living in a God ordained attachment to the soil of the local church.’
And here’s a good one!
‘The local church is like a bus, people get on and people get off. However, the driver of the bus doesn’t take it personally every time someone gets off, he simply continues driving towards the destination written on the front of the bus. Not everyone who gets on the bus of your church will stay on it to the end. Some people were only ever supposed to ride for a season. Others were intended to stay to the end. Some people will never get on your bus unless some other people get off. Every church needs some people to leave in order for some others to come. So, bless those that come and bless those that go and don’t take either personally.’
I’ve uploaded the full article to our website. You can download it here:
http://static.newlife.org.au/files/lawofattachmentpaulscanlon.doc
Hope that helps some viewers
Darren
Sheri, but didn’t Jesus let one go too? This isn’t about love or lack of it but mission. The Church has a serious mission and people who don’t share the individual church’s focus as part of that mission should be allowed to leave (maybe even encouraged) or they should get on board like everyone else. In my opinion the Church has much more to do than to look after a few miserable people and pander to their needs while millions perish. Sorry to be abrupt but even Jesus let many walk away from him (John 6:60-67).
[...] Talking about top churches, LifeChurch.TV is seen as the top church in the US. Craig Groeschel is the Pastor and like any relevant Pastor on this planet, he has a blog. He has a series of posts he titles, “oops” where he outlines the biggest stuff up’s in his journey at lifchurch.tv. I love it when Pastors are transparent. The absence of pride gives me great joy! Moving right along, be sure to check out his posts on his 4 biggests “ooops” - 1. Stinginess. 2 Building Small. 3 Let My People Go. 4 My Ministry. [...]
Check out the book, “CHURCH ANTAGONISTS”. Should be mandatory for all church leaders!
As much as possible, allow those with complaints to come and speak directly to the Pastor or Elder over the department of ministry the complaint is about. This keeps the ‘antagonist’ from speaking to others who cannot do anything to help. Most people just need to feel they have a voice that counts…even if the issue is never resolved the way they want it…being heard, many times is enough to calm them down and allow them to refocus on something more positive. However…if this doesn’t work…they need to be encouraged to find another Pastor and another church to antagonize!
re suzanne’s comment from July 5th, about loving one’s rut.
Something that gave me perspective on my-own-being-in-a-rut or in my comfort zone, was an NPR “Fresh Air” interview (June 2006) with lesser-known-old-school-country singer James Hand, in which he said, “As they say, a rut’s nothing but a grave with both the ends kicked out of it. And you stay in it long enough, and it’ll get kicked in on you.”
i’d never heard that saying before, and it hit me how easily i lose perspective.
Be careful about letting members go. Don’t allow this to be a popularity contest. Read carefully Luke 6:32-3 and then 1 Peter 5:1-3! If you are a leader the human tendency is to shut down and ignore criticism! Then marginalize the critic. Listen to what they say! Do not adopt an attitude of “We’re in charge and you’re not, and if you don’t like it Leave!” Remember Elders can pray about something, think they are right and still BE WRONG! With authority comes responsibility. Watch over and protect your sheep don’t lord it over them I see some of that in your thought process here. Be careful!
[...] Let people go (link) [...]