Jerry Hurley on “Hiring,” Part 1
Jerry Hurley has been on our team for nine years. Before joining the staff, Jerry was a District Manager for Target. He specializes in hiring. As the leader of our Team Development, Jerry oversees hiring and training of all staff. Here is a quick interview with Jerry.
1) What do most people think is most important in hiring? Besides a deep commitment to Christ, what are the most important things you look for?
I have found when hiring, most people look for two things: experience and themselves. Don’t get me wrong—experience has its place. It just isn’t in the top four reasons to hire someone. In our hiring process we look for four P’s: Passion, Performance, Potential, and Patience.
Your Passion reflects your values. We intentionally look for people who exhibit qualities consistent with our values. We have two sets of values: core values and behavioral values. Our core values are passion, evangelism, sacrifice, community, stewardship, excellence, and integrity. We also have studied our best team members and recognize consistent behaviors that we value. Our behavioral values are a killer work ethic, resilience, flexibility, sense of humor, humility, teachability, and cultural relevance. We look hard to make sure potential team members exhibit these characteristics in their lives.
Performance is critical in any thriving, growing organization. People get performance and experience confused. A person with 15 years of experience may not be a high performer; he may have just had the same mediocre year 15 times. In the interview, questions that start with “Tell me about a time when…” can work well. Be careful to listen for specific examples, like a specific person, time, and event. A whole paragraph on theory isn’t what you’re looking for. The best predictor of future success is past success. If you don’t see it in their past, don’t expect to see it in their future.
Potential is your organization’s future. We have both objective (testing) and subjective (interview) tools to help us gauge an individual’s potential. If there’s ever a time when you have to choose between two people, all other things being equal, always choose the one with the most long-term potential. Even at the expense of short-term performance.
Patience is a virtue! Be patient; never hire a person because you’re desperate to fill a position. No matter how painful it is to be without that position filled, it will be much more expensive and painful to fill it with the wrong person.
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Those are some great thoughts. Lately, I’ve noticed a trend in job requirements such as “5 years or more at a church larger than 700 attendees,” “A Master’s degree in a religious course of study, preferably from a Seminary or Bible School.” The way so many of them read, Jesus himself would be DQ’ed from working in vocational ministry. :-)
Jerry,
I think you’re a great example of people from very diverse backgrounds coming together to lead people to Christ.
I completely agree with your four P’s. Someone once explained recruiting members of a team to me in a very similar fashion, only in a more simplified manner. He told me that when you evaluate people you should look at their competence and commitment. Competence is nice but easy to teach so not always necessary (only the potential for competence in required). On the other hand commitment cannot be taught and will almost lead to competency if someone is given the opportunity to join the team.
I have always looked at recruitment in that fashion but you have really refined the way I look at recruitment now, thank you.
I especially appreciate the part about long term potential. Many times I hear people ask about experience or even the required schooling. A pastor/friend taught me the value of enjoying the people you work with to make a better group of employees. Also, the people with experience are going to have a predetermined idea of the “right” and “wrong” way to do things and are less open to changing or different ideas.
Outside of a passionate commitment to Christ, the more I lead and work on teams the more I’ve seen two important factors determine a person’s success or failure: Resourcefulness and Ownership. Someone may have all the talent in the world and a resume that lists great work experience, but if they won’t own the job and use their initiative to solve problems, they will soak-up precious resources and unnecessarily slow the entire team down.
A resourceful person who owns their job is worth her or his weight in gold.
Can someone explain to me the ’staff’ thing, please.
In Poland we don’t really have this mentality that we are part of the staff in the church. It seems to me a good idea to think of working for the Lord in terms of the leader or senior pastor who has people who work for him. But, as I said, it’s part of our thinking here in Poland to think of working for God in terms of ’staff’. When you’re on the staff, you earn money, you can get promoted, you can get fired, you work regulalry every day… We don’t think in these categories here in Poland, but it seems to work good for you at LIFECHURCH.
What should I do to change this thinking? Do you know what I mean? Help please.
Marcin,
My name is Kevin Penry and I’m the Operations Leader here at LifeChurch.tv. Thanks for your question. Here are some thoughts regarding being “on staff” at a ministry.
While each of us who makes the decision to follow Christ is called to “ministry� some have the opportunity/challenge to be employed in some fashion in a work of ministry. I’ve spent most of my life as a Follower of Christ and yet have been “employed� in ministry for only about 8 years. Since being on staff, I’ve enjoyed the opportunity to become totally focused on the work of the Church and how to be a good steward of God’s resources. When I was employed outside the Church, my thoughts and time were more divided as my earning a living competed for my time and mental energy. Being employed at a church can be hazardous. It seems easier to fall into the trap of your “job� at the Church displacing your relationship with God. It can also be confusing when your place of comfort, healing, and spiritual strength becomes the same place you face practical challenges like meeting goals, financial budgets, and feeling responsible for the pastoral care of many.
Working on a church staff is definitely not for everyone, and those of us who do certainly are not to be considered more “spiritual� than those who don’t. I have great respect for the pastors of churches who are bi-vocational and finding a way to serve their church while also earning a living elsewhere.
The questions associated with being “employed� by the Church or earning your living by another vocation while still committed to ministry are not new. Apostle Paul approaches the subject in the 9th Chapter of I Corinthians.
I like the four C’s I heard from somewhere(that kind of go with your four P’s)– Competency, Commitment, Chemistry, and Calling. Out of those four, calling is the deal-breaker though. I need to be convinced someone is called to that specific role in ministry. Not to devalue the other three, it just can’t be faked.
Like Brandon mentioned too, chemistry within a team is vital. I LOVE the people on my team. I hang out with them and know their families.
Love your comments from Poland, Marcin! Always refreshing!
Thanks Kevin, that’s exactly what I meant. The issue is far clearer now. I’m still interested in a few related issues, but I’ll give some time and thought to it first.
Thanks for your encouragement Kendra. -:)
Weird, for some reason 2 comments I posted while at work didn’t get recorder - proly browser bugs.
Regarding core values and this statement - “Our core values are passion, evangelism, sacrifice, community, stewardship, excellence, and integrity.”
What if people are strong in a set of 6-12 core values (for example those you might list while finding your chazown), but aren’t strong in those you listed? To clarify, what if people have all those values, but what if they aren’t passionate enough about evangelism to list it as a core value even though they evangelize regularly?
I think that any Christian would develop those values over time, but they might not be his or her stronger core values… I guess what I’m asking is if your values need to tie in with a potential recruits 100%…
Thanks for any input, and God Bless ‘_^
I’ve never thought about it being strange for my personal core values to differ from the ones I embrace as a part of the LifeChurch.tv team. I personally value discipleship, hospitality, generosity, and family. Craig mentions some of his personal core values in a video called “work life” from the Chazown series that also differ slighty from our group values.
Even so, we as a team strive to base our decisions and clarify our direction by the seven values you listed above, Suraj. We lovingly remember them as SPECIES, which fits nicely since they do define who we are.
I recently visited another church for a Family Vision Weekend (which leads you to define your core values as a family incidentally) and they had their six core values prominently posted. I mentioned to my husband what great values they were.
Even though I’d love to claim all Christ-like behaviors, I stay more focused recognizing the few He’s gifted me to exemplify.
Thanks.
Makes it a lot clearer =]