Leading Up: Part 4
What do you do if you’ve tried everything and the leaders above you simply won’t change?
First, realize it’s not the end of the world. Yes, your ministry or idea will likely be limited. But it doesn’t mean you still can’t do very effective ministry.
Second, you make one of two choices:
Option #1: You can do the best you can and support your leaders. (This is normally the right thing to do. If you run every time you don’t get you’re way, you had better be in great shape!)
Option #2: You can respectfully leave and find another place to do what God is calling you do to.
If you can’t live with Option 1, don’t try to stay on as a miserable, angry, resentful, rebellious staff member. You won’t help anyone.
Leave the ministry with integrity. Be a blessing. Speak highly of the leaders. Find another place to make a difference.
I’d love to hear from those who stayed… what did you learn?
For those who have left… what did God do?
Visit 
I left once to start a church. But the cord was still tied to us and it caused the start to fail. I learned a lot through that experience.
I went on staff with a large church on the Gulf Coast and the pastor actually listened to and liked my ideas. I got to start an edgy Saturday Night Service. However, I didn’t realize there were major problems at the church before I got there. 400 people left in my first 4 months. I was the last of 7 full time ministerial staff members. Within a year I was the only one left. The church in their wisdom cut all of our salaries–mine by $9K.
Then Katrina rocked our world. A week later the church where I’m at now called. I wanted to plant another church but God obviously had different plans.
Here is what I learned:
God doesn’t want our commitment. He wants us to be submitted to Him
God can’t use you until you are broken. I left the Gulf Coast broken and broke.
Leaders can’t save their job by hiring top staff if they aren’t willing to lead.
God must love me a lot because He is preparing me for something.
BTW, your book Chazown has been a great resource for me.
Option 1A - And take copious notes while continuing to serve under such leader - because perhaps in putting us under less-than-perfect leaders, God is releasing strategy for us to be even greater leaders when he one day sets us in that post. This brings us back to the being teachable point.
I served under someone in my first church who did a wonderful job teaching me how not to do it. I learned a ton! Usually I find God is trying to grow me more than he’s wanting me to be an instrument in growing those over me. And so, what a service I must provide today for those God is grooming for tomorrow.
Looking back, how I handled these things was far more important than whether or not my great idea was implemented. If God has yet to call a person to be senior leader, then he has called them to be under a senior leader.
Craig,
This is pretty close to home for me. I am not American by birth and so the learning curve for me was really tough. About 15 years ago, I was part of a church plant that came out of another successful church. I didn’t know it at the time, but there were some disgruntled people and hurt feelings as a result of the split.
The pastor that I went with (he had been the senior pastor of the other church also) was really hurt and he responded to ministry through that filter. It was really tough because, culturally I had been raised to believe that ministry was all about Jesus and not about us, so feelings didn’t come into play. Boy, was I wrong about that! The pastor had asked me to start a Serendipity Bible class on Wednesday nights at the same time as the midweek service would be going on. Before too long more people were attending the Bible class than the midweek service, and so he asked me to shut it down. I was frustrated but shut it down anyway. I stayed a part of that church and served faithfully for years until we moved. It was a process to work through the hurt feelings of rejection and control, and come to the place where I recognized that I was simply there to serve and not to have it my way.
I have found myself dealing with ministry in this context on two different occasions, and have on each occasion been graced with the ability to look beyond the man and see the calling of God on his life, and recognize that, since God didn’t call me to be the Lead Pastor of that work, my primary calling was to support the one I had been called to serve, to the extent that he was not walking contrary to the scriptures. This road of submission, on neither occasion was an easy road to walk, but now that I am serving as a Lead Pastor, I am grateful for those that God has called alongside me who continue to serve faithfully, inspite of how much more than me they know.
I have a “book-of-Exodus” perspective on this. Moses was the only one that God told about His plan to set Pharaoh up by having the Israelites march apparently “aimlessly” in the wilderness. Having marched all the way from Rameses to the entrance to the Wilderness of Etham, I imagine that many of them rejoiced that they had finally escaped from the evil clutches of Pharaoh after 400 years of bondage. However, when, at the instructions of Moses they turned back from the entrance to the Wilderness of Etham and went all the way back to Pi Hahiroth (roughly 100 miles in the same direction from which they had just come),the Bible says they shrieked and screamed at God with one voice and then their anger was turned upon Moses.
The problem with their response was the fact that they didn’t have his perspective. They didn’t know that God had a plan that He had let Moses in on. I am not suggesting that Lead Pastors have a monopoly on wisdom, I am simply saying that often times they have a little more insight into the vision and the plan than anyone else (since they received the calling from God in the first place). It requires a certain amount of spiritual maturity and grace to walk alongside, and serve the vision of the house when you have ideas that you are certain would make it better, but they are not being considered.
It goes back to one of the original comments you made, “If you can’t follow, you can’t lead” (my loose paraphrase). My working theory is that the same God who placed us in those positions of leadership is well able to get us to do His will as long as we are praying, learning, and growing. It may take some of us a little longer than others, but we will get there.
Kevin, Steve, and Joseph,
Thanks for your heartfelt responses!
Craig,
I believe those are the only two viable options. Both can be done with integrity.
I recently left a new church plant. It was a long drive for my family and I and the 2-3 days of going to the field to work was rough. But it was rewarding and God’s plan.
However, I was getting to a point of great frustration, simply because of the communication problems in the church staff. I also was not allowed to flex my creative juices and that was somewhat frustrating. After 11 months and what I sensed was becoming a tense situation, I chose to leave and come back to the church plant that was in our community.
Now, this had nothing to do with authority or a bad situation. But, I did realize that my personality was not gelling with the lead pastor and he had a vision that was very important for the church and one I didn’t necessarily buy into.
Since we made our decision there has been such a load released from our shoulders. I’m a people pleaser, and the greatest stress I feel is when I think I might disappoint someone. But there was a greater disappointment being where God didn’t want me. When I resigned the position, it freed-up both the pastor and me and my family.
Now we are serving with joy and contentment of being where we believe God wants us.
Bryan
http://www.imforgiven.com
Craig,
I once was ready to leave my church as a volunteer do to not being able to get things changed. However right when I was ready to move on things began to change. I think that this is definately a thing you have to wait on. I almost lost a sweet deal (I am first in line for the position when it becomes a paid job). So maybe being patient is a big part of the “Leading Up” process.
-Anthony Burns
http://www.804MediaWorks.com
I learned an important lesson from Henry Blackaby during my study of “Experiencing God.” He said that it’s not always about forming a “plan of work” for ourselves and asking God to bless that work, but rather find where God is working and join Him there. As hard as it was for me to leave the church I gave so much of myself to, I did leave, because it became too clear that no one was interested in joining God is His work and no amount of my “leading up” was going to change things. Still reeling from hurt, frustration, and rejection, God led me right where I was supposed to be, to a place that was doing everything it could to impact its community for Christ. I didn’t have to lead up, I just had to jump in! What a refreshing transformation in my life!!
craig,
i’m 17 years old and i’ve lead worship for my youth group for the past few years. a little over a year ago we got a new youth pastor, and since his arrival the youth group has fallen apart bit by bit. now i’m torn between leaving the church to find a place where i can pursue my calling and my vision, or stay here and continue to get burned. Psalm 127 speaks of laboring in vain if God is not the center. i struggle with the lack of passion and vision in the youth group. nothing is intentional, and i’ve reached a point where i feel like i’m wasting my time. if you feel led, i’d love to have some counsel, please pray through this.
for the kingdom,
-dav
I’ve gone with both options. We served as “intern pastors” at a church that raised us to do great things - then boxed us in. We served for 2 years with absolute hurt and bitterness and then finally decided to let go and make the best impact we could while we were there. We prayed the entire time that God would move us - ’cause we weren’t going anywhere without His approval (Saul and the Amhelkites is a great example). Turns out that when we just shut up and started serving - God called us to help launch a church. We’re only 6 months into it - so who knows how it will end, but waiting for God’s okay to move on has been the best decision we ever made - there have been so many lessons learned in the process. We learned what not to do from our previous pastor, but we also learned a ton about what to do - we just couldn’t do it with him.
Matthew
Dav,
Thanks for your transparency. I am praying for you as I write this. Anyone want to offer Dav some wisdom?
Dav,
It won’t be easy, but talk to your youth pastor. It will build character and maturity in your life. Don’t attack. Do more listening than talking. One way that always works well to keep my own motives in line is for me to ask those above me, “how can I help you work through this?” If you are feeling stressed about the direction and people leaving, he is probably feeling it as well. There may be something that you are not seeing or maybe it will help him with the right feedback. Sometimes there are no winners but sometimes these things turn out fine in the end. Jacob sat under some pretty tough authority for several years and he ended up being one of the great men of faith. If God is trying to develop you through this, leaving will defeat the purpose.
Andrew HNV,
…and if we jump out of the fire before we’re done God will just create another fire where we’ve moved to.
andrew,
thanks for your help. it’s good to hear advice from the other side of the spectrum. i’ve gone to him several times, and the results have ranged from “get over it everyone gets burned out” to “lets unite and do this together.” i just try to keep Matthew 18 in the back of my head at all times. i just have such a desire to be intentional and Spirit led. i don’t want to be boastful, but there are several other churches in the area that have been trying to get me out to their church to lead as well. it’s hard because their ministries and leaders have visions, but the other leaders here have dreams. i’ve discovered over the past few months that there is a huge difference. i try to be as humble as possible and respect the leaders and mentors God has placed in my life. i struggle because i know who God has created me to be. i know who i am, and i do my best to not compromise my identity. the youth group, under this leadership, doesn’t know who it is…yet. i believe God has an aweseom, annointed identity coming in the future, but i just don’t know if i’m apart of it. thanks guys, i appreciate you taking time for this. i hope i can help you guys out in any way possible.
-dav
Hi Dav,
This series is called leading up - it is about our ideas and things to make the ministry better, but what about Upward Shepherding? Shepherding is different then leading. It is more servant hood, knowing the condition of the flock, and seeing others with a single eye (God’s eye, not out of our own eyes). Maybe this youth pastor is struggling with something far beyond that which our eyes can see. The attitude is a cover-up of a deeper issue (i.e., a value or identity issue or insecurity).
This is not a battle of the flesh, it is a spiritual battle (won through praise and prayer!). You will spend your life in ministry up against persecution, power struggles, people who know everything and people that think you know nothing (even if you are the senior pastor).
I think about Moses….all the people followed him and they ended up in the desert with nothing to eat. They had to think “this guy is a joke…he’s not following God…he’s not a leader.” Yet all along, God was directing Moses.
Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. Submission doesn’t start until there is a disagreement. How we submit to authority is a picture of how we submit to God.
You know, Dav, at 17 to have such a heart for the Lord is amazing! God has big plans for you and I am sure He will not waste this experience! I praise God for you!
Dav,
One thought comes to mind in reading your posts. I have worked with a lot of Youth Pastors, and most of them are very young and still trying to figure out how things work. (I was one once so I can remember how that feels) Your pastor may be struggling for the same kind of identity.
Every time there is a change in leadership there are going to be changes with the overall group. It sounds like many of the kids in your group were very attached to the previous Youth Pastor and in your position I’m sure that this is true. It takes time to adjust to a new leadership personality, and youth are more intense which makes it more difficult.
Give him time to work out his position. Just as God placed you there he placed him there as well. The end result may be far beyond anything that you can see now, but God knows where He is going with this.
In looking at the other groups just remember that the grass is always greener until you get there. You may mover there and find everyone in that group sturggling with the change to you.
Phil
I have done both the options.
In one situation, due to denominational mandates, I knew that I simply had to outlast a bad situation with a senior pastor. I was young, had boundless energy and knew that I could outlast him, which I did. In retrospect, I wish I had learned more about leadership during that time, including the idea that I could lead up, even without a position of power.
In another situation, I was forced to leave, though I was looking beforehand. The truth is my own integrity in certain situations cost me that job in ministry. And, though painful, I wouldn’t have it any other way. So I have been supportive, encouraging and hopeful for the folks that are still at that church, but I am also very aware that it was a God-thing to move on.
Many posters expressed feelings of hurt and frustration. If you think you might have lingering unforgiveness or bitterness, I would recommend reading “Bait of Satan” by John Bevere. You won’t be a useful vessel if you’re stained and clogged with bitterness.
I have found that the resistance and frustration I have experienced in attempts to lead up are actually refinement and stretching from God, not caused by poor leadership above me.
Dav, “Everything flows down hill.” If you Youth Pastor has no vision and passion for implementation of a solid discipleship system, then maybe it’s because of his supervisor(s). If you don’t find vision and intentionality (and evaluation) taking place in those running ‘point’ in your church, it may be time to move on.
I’ve been in a church for almost 3 years with no macro vision and implementation strategy… we’ve got a purpose statement, but in reality it’s a lifeless slogan. I’m a youth Pastor… I love my staff, students, my co-workers, the city but our elders pay more attention to the different opionions from the pews than from a vision from God. I have just made the decision to look elsewhere, to look while I’m not completely emotionally spent and frustrated (easier to interview without that junk!)
Couple resources that have helped me a ton in this process:
“9 Things You Simply Must Do” by Henry Cloud (Chapter 4)
“Choosing To Cheat” by Andy Stanley (Chapter 3 –refers to marriage but applicable to all relationships)
God Bless,
James
What a great week of posts Craig with lots of great comments, suggestions, hurts and praises.
Many of us fall into this at various places and times in our serving. I have seen that people on the bottom that are very driven seem to come to a point of frustration.
At this stage and point in my life of doing ministry for 13 years I have been involved in serving on staff at three churches. In the various churches I have had three pastors each who were unique and have served a variety of purposes in my life. Some who lead me through their hurts. Some who lead from a high level of leadership. Some who have lead me even with a lack of integrity. The way I have looked at each is that God is and has utilized each one to uniquely shape me for ministry.
It is hard to not get frustrated when you are driven person. At least it is for me. Maybe it is that passion that leads us to learn how to do it and how not to do it as God transitions us to the place He wants us. We must remember that we choose to be where we are. And God only calls us to be faithful and rejoice in every situation no matter how hard that may be.
Craig:
Man, this series of posts have been AWESOME! Thanks for all the great insight- it really is better stuff then half the leadership books out there.
Keep it up.
God Bless,
Brian