Comments on: Hiring: Part 1 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/ a leadership, technology, and innovation blog for pastors and church leaders Sat, 20 Mar 2010 02:36:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Phil Rapp http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6783 Phil Rapp Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:05:24 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6783 I was recently part of a company where the owner hired a lot of family, none of whom were qualified for the jobs. In the end the owner ended up supporting his family while they tried to figure out how to fit into a business that they really did not understand. His business would have been more successful if he just wrote a check to each of these family members every year and did not let them in the door of his company. Believe it or not he would agree with this. There are other places where I have seen family members contribute as much or more than the owner and the company grows like wildfire. Hiring family and friends should be treated as carefully as hiring a stranger (even more so). They need to be as qualified for the job as any other candidate and should be a self starters so that they will go out and grow themselves and not just ride the wave. I appreciate working with family members when they are like this because they contribute and have more of a heart for the ministry than the average Joe on the street. It has been a pleasure working with some of those at my current job ;) I was recently part of a company where the owner hired a lot of family, none of whom were qualified for the jobs. In the end the owner ended up supporting his family while they tried to figure out how to fit into a business that they really did not understand. His business would have been more successful if he just wrote a check to each of these family members every year and did not let them in the door of his company. Believe it or not he would agree with this.

There are other places where I have seen family members contribute as much or more than the owner and the company grows like wildfire.

Hiring family and friends should be treated as carefully as hiring a stranger (even more so). They need to be as qualified for the job as any other candidate and should be a self starters so that they will go out and grow themselves and not just ride the wave.

I appreciate working with family members when they are like this because they contribute and have more of a heart for the ministry than the average Joe on the street. It has been a pleasure working with some of those at my current job ;)

]]> By: Craig http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6782 Craig Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:45:27 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6782 Jason, I am going to post later this week about hiring from the inside. Joshua, GREAT thoughts on part time. I agree completely. Thanks! Jason,

I am going to post later this week about hiring from the inside.

Joshua,

GREAT thoughts on part time. I agree completely. Thanks!

]]> By: joshua singleton http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6744 joshua singleton Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:23:52 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6744 Something to look at I think is part time or less hires have huge benefit to church plants. We "hire" out nursery coordinator, for justa stipend, our kids pastor and band leaders for a small check each month. We cant afford anyone full time by any stretch yet, but this keeps people accountable and feels more like a work environment and not just a volunteer basis. Then as we have grown, and each team leader produces, we have given raises. The goal is to grow in leadership, numbers, and salary for these positions. It has been very effective overall. I know some smaller churches and church plants feel overwhelmed when thinking about "hiring," but it is a great thing. Also, do the very best to pay well. Better to hire fewer who are effective and compensate them well, than many on a shoe string budget. Our plan is t grow our team from within, as we all raise our "level" of leadership. Something to look at I think is part time or less hires have huge benefit to church plants. We “hire” out nursery coordinator, for justa stipend, our kids pastor and band leaders for a small check each month. We cant afford anyone full time by any stretch yet, but this keeps people accountable and feels more like a work environment and not just a volunteer basis.

Then as we have grown, and each team leader produces, we have given raises. The goal is to grow in leadership, numbers, and salary for these positions.

It has been very effective overall. I know some smaller churches and church plants feel overwhelmed when thinking about “hiring,” but it is a great thing.

Also, do the very best to pay well. Better to hire fewer who are effective and compensate them well, than many on a shoe string budget.

Our plan is t grow our team from within, as we all raise our “level” of leadership.

]]> By: Jason Raitz http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6725 Jason Raitz Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:52:37 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6725 Great post! I am currently hiring a position for my team and this was very timely. I do wonder why it's worked better for you to hire from within than bring someone in from the outside. From our potentials, the "outsiders" are more qualified and a have a broader range of ministry experience. Just wondering. Great post! I am currently hiring a position for my team and this was very timely. I do wonder why it’s worked better for you to hire from within than bring someone in from the outside. From our potentials, the “outsiders” are more qualified and a have a broader range of ministry experience. Just wondering.

]]> By: Craig http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6724 Craig Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:50:10 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6724 Chris, I think your father is right. We can be open to hiring relatives. I have had a painful experience with it and know the risks involved. Chris,

I think your father is right. We can be open to hiring relatives.

I have had a painful experience with it and know the risks involved.

]]> By: Chris http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6720 Chris Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:01:39 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6720 In regards to hiring a relative - My father is the Senior Pastor at our church and after working for 4 yrs as a Youth Pastor in a voluntery role I was brought on staff. We work very closely together and I think that this is a great bonus to the church. When asking a fellow pastor on if we should hire a family member, his reply was - do whatever it takes to build the kingdom and move the church forward. food for thought. In regards to hiring a relative - My father is the Senior Pastor at our church and after working for 4 yrs as a Youth Pastor in a voluntery role I was brought on staff. We work very closely together and I think that this is a great bonus to the church. When asking a fellow pastor on if we should hire a family member, his reply was - do whatever it takes to build the kingdom and move the church forward.

food for thought.

]]> By: Noel http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6709 Noel Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:02:24 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6709 That was remarkably timely for our church. Thanks. That was remarkably timely for our church. Thanks.

]]> By: Jason http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6685 Jason Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:19:55 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6685 Hiring or working with family is the best/worst of both worlds. I have read the post & comments, on how foolish/dumb it is to hire relatives, and I get it, but I don't think it is that simple. I mean, even Jesus had relatives on his team. I know that wasn't about "hiring" but I do think it lends itself to the discussion. Just wondering out loud. I have often found the difference maker should not be blood, but the emotional health/spiritual maturity (character, competency, consistency, & chemistry) of the candidate you are looking to hire. If they have it, and happen to be family, take the risk. If not, don't bend your standards for anyone - including family. Hiring or working with family is the best/worst of both worlds. I have read the post & comments, on how foolish/dumb it is to hire relatives, and I get it, but I don’t think it is that simple. I mean, even Jesus had relatives on his team. I know that wasn’t about “hiring” but I do think it lends itself to the discussion. Just wondering out loud.

I have often found the difference maker should not be blood, but the emotional health/spiritual maturity (character, competency, consistency, & chemistry) of the candidate you are looking to hire. If they have it, and happen to be family, take the risk. If not, don’t bend your standards for anyone - including family.

]]> By: Jason Curlee http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6684 Jason Curlee Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:50:49 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6684 Hey Craig, This looks to be a great topic as well as being very needed. My thought when it comes down to hiring a friend...there are some that would work and wouldn't...obiviously if they are my friend then the character and chemistry is probably already in question. So then it comes down to competency in the work environment. Should you hire a friend that floats from job to job...NOPE. Should you hire a friend as a favor...PROBABLY NOT. Should you hire a friend who works hard and is fully competent...I would say yes... I myself want to be part of an organization who values friendship and a family environment within the organization. (Not saying we should hire family) We all are on a great destination together and the greatest part is the journey. As a staff we are going to hopefully spend many years together and through that be a tight knit family. Would I hire a friend that totally knocks it out of the park in what they do...especially in ministry...you bet... But...make sure their are some boundries...because as in any relationships there will be times when this close friendship will be stretched. Hey Craig, This looks to be a great topic as well as being very needed.

My thought when it comes down to hiring a friend…there are some that would work and wouldn’t…obiviously if they are my friend then the character and chemistry is probably already in question.

So then it comes down to competency in the work environment.

Should you hire a friend that floats from job to job…NOPE.

Should you hire a friend as a favor…PROBABLY NOT.

Should you hire a friend who works hard and is fully competent…I would say yes…

I myself want to be part of an organization who values friendship and a family environment within the organization. (Not saying we should hire family) We all are on a great destination together and the greatest part is the journey. As a staff we are going to hopefully spend many years together and through that be a tight knit family.

Would I hire a friend that totally knocks it out of the park in what they do…especially in ministry…you bet…

But…make sure their are some boundries…because as in any relationships there will be times when this close friendship will be stretched.

]]> By: Steve Waite http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6682 Steve Waite Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:20:28 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6682 I understand Rick Warren used to spend a lot of time talking with the late Peter Drucker. I believe many pastors could learn much about hiring and running a church from reading Drucker. Keep up the great work! Agape, steve I understand Rick Warren used to spend a lot of time talking with the late Peter Drucker. I believe many pastors could learn much about hiring and running a church from reading Drucker.

Keep up the great work!

Agape,
steve

]]> By: reGeN http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6680 reGeN Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:55:36 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6680 I fight the temptation to want to hire close friends for future ministry opportunities. I've noticed that some pastors hire the children of their Christian leader friends, even when that person is clearly not gifted for that particular ministry. That creates a <i>very</i> sticky situation for the church and its leadership. Hiring relatives? Only if I'm infected with a "You Big Dummy" virus :lol: . One of my seminary classes actually touched (at least a little bit) on hiring/firing issues but hearing from those who have to deal with this issue on a daily basis is important. Thanks for the post and I look forward to more insight on this subject. I fight the temptation to want to hire close friends for future ministry opportunities. I’ve noticed that some pastors hire the children of their Christian leader friends, even when that person is clearly not gifted for that particular ministry. That creates a very sticky situation for the church and its leadership.

Hiring relatives? Only if I’m infected with a “You Big Dummy” virus :lol: .

One of my seminary classes actually touched (at least a little bit) on hiring/firing issues but hearing from those who have to deal with this issue on a daily basis is important. Thanks for the post and I look forward to more insight on this subject.

]]> By: Mike Jones http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6679 Mike Jones Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:39:27 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6679 I think it's really interesting that hiring techniques were not taught in seminary. I guess I understand how they could not see that as something important to include in the curriculum, but it is, very important. Most of the seminarians I know have undergraduate degrees in areas which give them some business background but I am sure many do not. Those skills, especially the interpersonal and leadership skills, could be very beneficial in leading a church. I think it’s really interesting that hiring techniques were not taught in seminary. I guess I understand how they could not see that as something important to include in the curriculum, but it is, very important. Most of the seminarians I know have undergraduate degrees in areas which give them some business background but I am sure many do not. Those skills, especially the interpersonal and leadership skills, could be very beneficial in leading a church.

]]> By: Craig http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6675 Craig Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:18:52 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6675 Jordan, Hopefully, most staff members will become good friends. Hiring a friend has some risk, but the benefits may outweigh the risks. Tina, I will post tomorrow on tests. Geoff, You guys and the CCC guys have done a great job with family on staff. There are some great examples of churches who do hire family and do well. I hired one of my wife's relatives... Ouch. Some risks: What if you have to fire? Who sets salaries? What happens at Thanksgiving lunch if the relationship goes sour? Great question on hiring from other churches. I'll be posting on that later this week. Jordan,

Hopefully, most staff members will become good friends. Hiring a friend has some risk, but the benefits may outweigh the risks.

Tina,

I will post tomorrow on tests.

Geoff,

You guys and the CCC guys have done a great job with family on staff. There are some great examples of churches who do hire family and do well.

I hired one of my wife’s relatives… Ouch.

Some risks: What if you have to fire? Who sets salaries? What happens at Thanksgiving lunch if the relationship goes sour?

Great question on hiring from other churches. I’ll be posting on that later this week.

]]> By: Geoff Surratt http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6673 Geoff Surratt Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:41:06 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6673 I totally agree with not hiring relatives; that's a deadend path that almost never works out. (Just ask my brothers) On a serious note, how do you approach hiring someone who is on staff at another church? Who do you call first? I totally agree with not hiring relatives; that’s a deadend path that almost never works out. (Just ask my brothers)

On a serious note, how do you approach hiring someone who is on staff at another church? Who do you call first?

]]> By: Tina Harkey http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6667 Tina Harkey Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:47:56 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6667 What kind of testing do you do? I would assume a spritual gifts test, but what others would you suggest? What kind of testing do you do? I would assume a spritual gifts test, but what others would you suggest?

]]> By: Jordan Terrell http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6663 Jordan Terrell Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:15:48 +0000 http://swerve.lifechurch.tv/2007/04/09/hiring-part-1/#comment-6663 Craig, Thought this was very helpful considering that I am getting ready to leave to interview someone this morning! Thanks. Also, what do you think about hiring someone who is a good friend? My father-in-law gave me similiar advice as yours about hiring family when hiring friends. Craig,
Thought this was very helpful considering that I am getting ready to leave to interview someone this morning! Thanks. Also, what do you think about hiring someone who is a good friend? My father-in-law gave me similiar advice as yours about hiring family when hiring friends.

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